Insteon with multiple main panels?

Well practically speaking any sort of signal needs (at least) two conductors - you need something to reference the signal to. Every tried to measure, say, the voltage going to a lamp fixture, by connecting just the red lead of your meter?
 
Correct, the neutral connection is used for determining the timing of the electrical signal. 
 
Yes, that is how I understand it...When the hot crosses neutral... or... when the hot signal is at zero volts (relative to neutral (aka grounded conductor)).  Exactly. 
 
Hello Chris,
 
The grounds in a home electrical system are there for safety in the event of an electrical fault.  In the event of a fault, they are intended to carry the fault current safely back to the electrical panel. 
 
Insteon devices do not place current or any signals on the ground conductor.  Many Insteon devices are two wire and do not connect to the ground at all.  Switches bond the ground to the metal switch frame in the event of a catastrophic failure (no connection in normal use).
 
You appear to be envisioning the home wiring as a balanced transmission line where the ground wire serves as a shield.  I really wish that were the case.  If it were, X10 technology would be equivalent to hardwired.  Shielded twisted pair Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twisted_pair
 
In contrast to the link above, our power lines are not twisted, unbalanced (wildly varying loads), and unshielded (the ground wire is a very ineffective shield).  The powerline is an ugly communication path at best.  Current automation technologies that use it get around the ugly path through high transmit levels (UPB) or distributed repeaters (Insteon).
 
Moving a ground wire within a breaker panel, from one grounding point to the next, should have absolutely zero effect on communications.  It simply isn't part of the communication loop.
 
Tightening a connection on a neutral wire (which is what I suspect you accomplished) can absolutely affect communications.
 
 
 
 
 
ChrisCicc said:
Not neutrals - grounds. It was causing some sort of (I presume) feedback loop. Isolating each ground to its own circuit rather than crossing between them did the trick. For anything other than data signaling, what the electrician did doesn't really make a difference.
 
As far as Wifi, the one limitation that I run into with large homes is limited range. I think some sort of IP addressable mesh network is the future of HA protocols. Z-Wave is trying to position itself there with Z/IP. I agree powerline signaling, while good for extending range now, is causing issues too often. But then Z-Wave isn't perfect either...
 
I'm not an electrician and I can't tell you why it worked, I can only report to the community what my customer experienced in the hope it helps others. I agree my first instinct was the ground shouldn't make a difference, but the electrician claimed that it was a factor. That's all I know, sorry!
 
IndyMike said:
Hello Chris,
 
The grounds in a home electrical system are there for safety in the event of an electrical fault.  In the event of a fault, they are intended to carry the fault current safely back to the electrical panel. 
 
Insteon devices do not place current or any signals on the ground conductor.  Many Insteon devices are two wire and do not connect to the ground at all.  Switches bond the ground to the metal switch frame in the event of a catastrophic failure (no connection in normal use).
 
You appear to be envisioning the home wiring as a balanced transmission line where the ground wire serves as a shield.  I really wish that were the case.  If it were, X10 technology would be equivalent to hardwired.  Shielded twisted pair Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twisted_pair
 
In contrast to the link above, our power lines are not twisted, unbalanced (wildly varying loads), and unshielded (the ground wire is a very ineffective shield).  The powerline is an ugly communication path at best.  Current automation technologies that use it get around the ugly path through high transmit levels (UPB) or distributed repeaters (Insteon).
 
Moving a ground wire within a breaker panel, from one grounding point to the next, should have absolutely zero effect on communications.  It simply isn't part of the communication loop.
 
Tightening a connection on a neutral wire (which is what I suspect you accomplished) can absolutely affect communications.
 
Back
Top