INSTEON

[upstatemike]

Under promise and over perform. I would still put those restrictions in the contract even if you don't hold the customer to them. You can't take on liability for things beyond your control (like manufacturer hardware recalls) and stay profitable. Especially if the costs you are eating are those of another vendor such as an electrician rather than just your own time. At least with the language in place you can go case by case on how much you are willing to eat in a givin situation.

 

[opie]

I'm still a rookie in this industry but here is my opinion.

These issues being raised here are exactly why I am not currently offering Insteon as a solution. The majority of my own house is Insteon and I am happy for the most part. The price to performance ratio for Insteon is very good IMHO. However, having said that I don't think it's ready for prime time for Pro installations. If Insteon had field upgradable firmware, it wouldn't be such an issue but for now I'm waiting in the wings.

That sounds good on paper, but I don't think it would fly with my customers...

I'm only selling and installing products that I recommend so if I put in 40 Insteon switches for a customer and then told them 3 weeks later that they all needed to be replaced and that was going to cost them $1000-$1500 dollars!

I agree 100%. We are being paid for our opinion, knowledge and experience.

Under promise and over perform. I would still put those restrictions in the contract even if you don't hold the customer to them.

Very true! CYA

Scott

 

[Captain Caveman]

Captain Caveman - Are you planning to cover the labor to replace the flickering swithces? Pleased to hear that you're having good success with Insteon!

We expect problems and charge accordingly. Take for example the CRM software that you planned on installing for one of your clients, do you expect that you can just install it on thier server and not run into any problems what so ever? Heck no, even routine installs that you know like the back of your hand can get the best of you.

How about programming a simple remote, ever spend 2 days trying to learn IR codes and getting the timing of the macros just right, when you thought it would only take a couple hours. (Eventually tossed the remote and went with a different brand)

So expect the worst and charge appropriately. I would mark up the product at least 100% in addition to labor for programming, setup, etc.

 

[Captain Caveman]

However, having said that I don't think it's ready for prime time for Pro installations. If Insteon had field upgradable firmware, it wouldn't be such an issue but for now I'm waiting in the wings.

Does any of the other vendors have switches with field upgradable firmware?

Have you ever had to explain why a $500 remote turned off the TV when they clicked "Watch Satellite"? (no discreet power button)

More and more we are seeing simple devices that now rely on microchips and behave like computers. The smarter we expect them to be, the more frustrated we become. Plasma TV's have to be rebooted and occasionally my so called "smart" remote. Pretty soon I will be rebooting my toaster!

The point is I think consumers these days don't expect everything to always work as expected and don't mind putting up with a few glitches as long as you let them know why it is happening, rather than have them think it is your incompetence.

Now I am in no way advocating that we should expect less than perfect from Smarthome or any other vendor, but if want to play in this field your going to have to get used to it.

 

[opie]

Does any of the other vendors have switches with field upgradable firmware?

I can't say for sure but it seems like some annoying things like the UPB delay could be addressed in the field with UpStart but perhaps not. My point is, it would be nice to be able to flash the switch with some sort of device that could plug into the front of the switch behind the rocker plate. Acording to this thread that's how they do it at the factory.

Have you ever had to explain why a $500 remote turned off the TV when they clicked "Watch Satellite"? (no discreet power button)

No I haven't. Like I said I am still very much a rookie and haven't had that kind of fun yet. <_<

The point is I think consumers these days don't expect everything to always work as expected and don't mind putting up with a few glitches as long as you let them know why it is happening, rather than have them think it is your incompetence.

For the most part I agree, but I guess I don't see replacing every switch I just installed two months ago as a "few glitches". Don't get me wrong, I like Insteon and I think it is very close to ready but I suppose my concern is that Insteon is still kind of a rookie too and I need a more seasoned partner right now. I know I am going to make enough mistakes on my own.

 

[Captain Caveman]

For the most part I agree, but I guess I don't see replacing every switch I just installed two months ago as a "few glitches".

I won't be replacing every switch, unless the situation really calls for it. Although extended messaging would be nice when programming links, it does not merit a replacement when everything is working perfectly.

The icon switch that created a flicker is usally used as an on/off switch, the problem only happens when it is being dimmed. So the home owner has not even noticed it, only I did. If he requests that I replace it, then no problem.

No I haven't. Like I said I am still very much a rookie and haven't had that kind of fun yet.

Opie, I'm not singling you out, just putting things into perspective for the whole audience.

 

[opie]

I won't be replacing every switch, unless the situation really calls for it.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant in a hypothetical worst case scenario and no one specific job or install. I guess I'm a little paranoid.

Opie, I'm not singling you out, just putting things into perspective for the whole audience.

Fair enough.

 

[Captain Caveman]

I meant in a hypothetical worst case scenario and no one specific job or install. I guess I'm a little paranoid.

I guess any job or product could have a worst case scenario. If you get a bad batch of switches hopefully you will know it after you installed a handfull. If your having problems job after job with the products don't use them anymore.

Insteon has in the past put out some problem switches but it is comforting to know that they quickly addressed the issues and offered replacements.

Btw... I just ordered a ton of switches (Smarthome Pro had a promo, so saved a lot of money) for a big install. I will let everyone know how well it goes! The carpenters are trimming out the house now.

 

[opie]

Thanks for the advice. I was called by SmartHome about that same deal, pretty nice.