Issue with Elk and UPB

comet48

Member
I'm having trouble with the Elk and simply automated UPB's.

First, I want to be able to distinguish whether a UPB is activated via the Elk or turned on from the switch or some other device. I'm using the "whenever light XX is turned on by some external device" rule, but it doesn't show "true" I turn the light on at the switch. Am I missing something?
The second problem is that the elk does not appear to recognise when a light is turned on or off via a link. Any ideas welcome.
Thanks
 
I'm having trouble with the Elk and simply automated UPB's.

First, I want to be able to distinguish whether a UPB is activated via the Elk or turned on from the switch or some other device. I'm using the "whenever light XX is turned on by some external device" rule, but it doesn't show "true" I turn the light on at the switch. Am I missing something?
The second problem is that the elk does not appear to recognise when a light is turned on or off via a link. Any ideas welcome.
Thanks

In UPStart on the "Options" tab for each switch, there is a checkbox "Report light level after any button or rocker is pressed". If you haven't enabled this, you will need to do so.

Doug
 
What Doug said...


But note also that this wont fix the problem with the Elk knowing about link activations. Further, the web interface of the M1XEP doesnt play very
nice with UPB. If it happens to think something is already on (or off) it wont send an on (or off). And even more surprising, if it thinks a device is on and you move to a lighting page that shows it as on, it will send an on command! Combine this feature with the lack of link tracking and you'll soon realize that, as far as UPB is concerned, the lighting interface on the M1XEP is not very useful.
 
What Doug said...


But note also that this wont fix the problem with the Elk knowing about link activations. Further, the web interface of the M1XEP doesnt play very
nice with UPB. If it happens to think something is already on (or off) it wont send an on (or off). And even more surprising, if it thinks a device is on and you move to a lighting page that shows it as on, it will send an on command! Combine this feature with the lack of link tracking and you'll soon realize that, as far as UPB is concerned, the lighting interface on the M1XEP is not very useful.
I had the checkbox doug suggested checked, and that worked for non-link activation. I noticed in the m1xsp manual the following
"Limitations:
UPB modules will not send their recent status changes in response to link commands. Therefore, the status displayed by the
M1 Controller may not always match the true status of UPB devices if they have been controlled by a Link command."

Have you tried tracking the senes (193 and on ) - that's my next try!
 
I see what you mean about links - they are not really on/off switches!!


Power Home Automation 2.1 fixes this issue with LINKS, ELK and direct access commands. Whenever I turn a link off, I am able to update all the lights on the link so that RM is correctly showing status.

-=*Sharby*=-
 
Power Home Automation 2.1 fixes this issue with LINKS, ELK and direct access commands. Whenever I turn a link off, I am able to update all the lights on the link so that RM is correctly showing status.
What is this "Power Home Automation 2.1"? Hopefully you aren't referring to Dave's PowerHome as many people don't want to run a PC 24/7 to enable lights to function correctly, especially if they already have an Elk.
 
Hopefully UDI will come out with a UPB version of the ISY this coming year. The UDI guys really know how to make a standalone controller that plays well with the ELK (kept the ELK informed of any changes in device status) I am NOT knocking Powerhome at all. It is a great piece of software as is Homeseer but I prefer a standalone device that does not need a PC running 24/7. When I used the ISY with Insteon I thought that the ISY was near perfect. Again hopefully a UPB version is coming soon.
 
Power Home Automation 2.1 fixes this issue with LINKS, ELK and direct access commands. Whenever I turn a link off, I am able to update all the lights on the link so that RM is correctly showing status.
What is this "Power Home Automation 2.1"? Hopefully you aren't referring to Dave's PowerHome as many people don't want to run a PC 24/7 to enable lights to function correctly, especially if they already have an Elk.
That's how I feel - no PC please. Has anyone had any luck detecting link commands with the Elk - If I could recognise these, I could turn the UPB units on from the Elk, which would serve my purpose. The link commands are defined as on/off switch on the elk, which makes no sense to me.
 
Power Home Automation 2.1 fixes this issue with LINKS, ELK and direct access commands. Whenever I turn a link off, I am able to update all the lights on the link so that RM is correctly showing status.
What is this "Power Home Automation 2.1"? Hopefully you aren't referring to Dave's PowerHome as many people don't want to run a PC 24/7 to enable lights to function correctly, especially if they already have an Elk.
That's how I feel - no PC please. Has anyone had any luck detecting link commands with the Elk - If I could recognise these, I could turn the UPB units on from the Elk, which would serve my purpose. The link commands are defined as on/off switch on the elk, which makes no sense to me.

Unfortunately, PowerHome is the ONLY working solution for the UPB ELK issues. I've worked with ELK, PCS, Webmtn, and PH for over a year and this is the only solution thus far. I've been looking at mini PDAs with serial support that would eliminate the 24/7 full blown PC solution for you. It's unfortunate that ELK will not being upgrading their M1 firmware for this issue.

-=*Sharby*=-
 
I noticed in the m1xsp manual the following
"Limitations:
UPB modules will not send their recent status changes in response to link commands. Therefore, the status displayed by the
M1 Controller may not always match the true status of UPB devices if they have been controlled by a Link command."

I don't understand why they would say that. I have a house full of Simply Automated UPB devices, and they most certainly report their status when it is changed in response to a link.

Doug
 
I noticed in the m1xsp manual the following
"Limitations:
UPB modules will not send their recent status changes in response to link commands. Therefore, the status displayed by the
M1 Controller may not always match the true status of UPB devices if they have been controlled by a Link command."

I don't understand why they would say that. I have a house full of Simply Automated UPB devices, and they most certainly report their status when it is changed in response to a link.

Doug

UPB devices do not report their status when it is changed in response to a link. The best they can do is to report that they have received a command. As configured from the factory, the SAI devices dont request an acknowledgment when they transmit a link. Likewise, when the Elk transmits a link or any packet for that matter, it doent ask for an acknowledgment either. The only time I know of when an SAI switch will report status is when it is configured to transmit its status on a button press. This helps the Elk a bit, but not quite enough. So, even if the transmitting device were to request an ack from the receivers, the driver would still have to be smart enough to know which devices were linked and what commands they send themselves when the link is activated... or it could simply poll each device for status after it notices a link command has been transmitted. The former is difficult for a couple of reasons. Just consider a long slow fade rate, the latter sounds easier but suffers from the same problem as the former and if there are many devices in the link, the UPB bus will be jammed up for some time while the polling is going on (at least 1 second per device in the link).

I am not trying to imply that it's impossible to get right... but it is enjoyingly difficult.
 
UPB devices do not report their status when it is changed in response to a link. The best they can do is to report that they have received a command. As configured from the factory, the SAI devices dont request an acknowledgment when they transmit a link. Likewise, when the Elk transmits a link or any packet for that matter, it doent ask for an acknowledgment either. The only time I know of when an SAI switch will report status is when it is configured to transmit its status on a button press.

I just want to make sure that nobody is confused by your first sentence above. I think you meant to say "by default". I have SA switches and I've enabled "Report light level after any button or rocker is pressed". When a button is pressed OR when a link is received, the switch sends a UPB message reporting it's new light level. I assume this is true of all vendors.

Doug
 
UPB devices do not report their status when it is changed in response to a link. The best they can do is to report that they have received a command. As configured from the factory, the SAI devices dont request an acknowledgment when they transmit a link. Likewise, when the Elk transmits a link or any packet for that matter, it doent ask for an acknowledgment either. The only time I know of when an SAI switch will report status is when it is configured to transmit its status on a button press.

I just want to make sure that nobody is confused by your first sentence above. I think you meant to say "by default". I have SA switches and I've enabled "Report light level after any button or rocker is pressed". When a button is pressed OR when a link is received, the switch sends a UPB message reporting it's new light level. I assume this is true of all vendors.

Doug
That is not true. When a Simply Automated link is received, it does not report to the Elk that the status has changed. Only when a rocker is pressed AND that rocker is assigned to a load.
 
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