ISY 5.0 is *still* in Alpha after 2 years?
- Thread starter IVB
- Start date
Getting the thread back on track, I too am disappointed with UDI taking so long to finish 5.x. I have a few multi-channel devices I can only access the 1st relay on and I would like to try out some Zwave wall controllers which the current firmware seems to have complete lack of support of. What does work on the ISY seems to work well which is what makes this all the more disappointing. Like the original poster, I moved all my lighting and a lot of my advanced logic rules to the ISY and keep only security or mission-critical rules on the Elk. The two work together quite well, although the ability to trigger Elk rules direct from the ISY and modify the Elk counter and custom automation values from the ISY would be icing on the cake.
So I implore Michael or anyone else from UDI who may be listening: PLEASE PLEASE finish 5.0 and make a release version. Thanks!
On a side note, I employed an external antenna with my ISY Zwave dongle and it works flawlessly (despite some warnings to the contrary). I have the unit centrally mounted and have found the ISY can directly communicate with every Zwave device on the property (including an Enerwave module in my outdoor spa), so with the mesh network reliability is 99.999%. I have only experienced one Zwave device failure (ironically a MicroSwitch from Aeotec) in the last 3 years. This is a marked contrast to the DOZENS of Insteon failures I've experienced over the years. The ISY does an admirable job of allowing Zwave and Insteon to co-exist and inter-operate. I'm systematically replacing failed Insteon modules with Zwave and have Insteon KeypadLincs controlling them with almost imperceptible latency. The ability of the Zwave modules to measure and report power consumption has proven especially useful for appliance monitoring—far more so than the SychroLinc.
So I implore Michael or anyone else from UDI who may be listening: PLEASE PLEASE finish 5.0 and make a release version. Thanks!
On a side note, I employed an external antenna with my ISY Zwave dongle and it works flawlessly (despite some warnings to the contrary). I have the unit centrally mounted and have found the ISY can directly communicate with every Zwave device on the property (including an Enerwave module in my outdoor spa), so with the mesh network reliability is 99.999%. I have only experienced one Zwave device failure (ironically a MicroSwitch from Aeotec) in the last 3 years. This is a marked contrast to the DOZENS of Insteon failures I've experienced over the years. The ISY does an admirable job of allowing Zwave and Insteon to co-exist and inter-operate. I'm systematically replacing failed Insteon modules with Zwave and have Insteon KeypadLincs controlling them with almost imperceptible latency. The ability of the Zwave modules to measure and report power consumption has proven especially useful for appliance monitoring—far more so than the SychroLinc.
IVB
Senior Member
Actually, over the last 2 weeks i'm starting to move rules off the ISY and back onto CQC as appropriate. In addition to no multi-channel devices, the UI is just archaic and a serious PITA to read on high res laptops even with java font size cranked up.
Right now I can still hold my breath and wait as nothing better than the ISY has come along, but if something does I don't want it to take a long time to switch away. I know two who have even (gasp) gone back to VRCOP, although that's still a bridge too far for me. (And I still own two of them).
Right now I can still hold my breath and wait as nothing better than the ISY has come along, but if something does I don't want it to take a long time to switch away. I know two who have even (gasp) gone back to VRCOP, although that's still a bridge too far for me. (And I still own two of them).
I have been using the SmartThings v2 hub since it came out, having switched from the Leviton stick and am still using the VRC0P to interface to CQC. I know the ST hub didn't work for IVB perhaps due to the construction of his house; mine has been rock solid without issue. ST hub handles multi-channel devices and there is an active community creating new/improved z-wave interfaces. I did have to put in 2 z-wave repeaters to reach the sensors on the three gates we have in our backyard fence but even that has been rock solid over the last 2 years.
I do not use ST hub for any rules, all are handled in CQC, In the process now of installing MQTT bridge between ST hub and CQC to interface the zigbee devices managed by the hub.
I do not use ST hub for any rules, all are handled in CQC, In the process now of installing MQTT bridge between ST hub and CQC to interface the zigbee devices managed by the hub.
batwater said:
Pretty sure from all angles a switch to ST hub would be a huge step backward for me. The ONLY 2 things I'm missing from the ISY is multi-channel support and support for Zwave keypads. Not sure it's worth a platform switch to get this. This thread is about "when is 5.0x going to be ready" for prime time, not "what alternatives are there to ISY996iZW for Zwave support." Pretty sure the latter would be best covered in a second thread.
I will agree the ISY UI is archaic and in serious need for a freshening/modernization. That said, it is functional in a no frills sort of way. I can live with the UI because once I set up the rules I don't find much need to "fiddle" with them. The only other time I find myself there is to add or replace a device and it may not be the prettiest but it does get the job done. Pluses for the ISY over ST as I see it is Insteon support (if you need it), CLOSE-COUPLED Elk support, fairly quick rules execution, no need for 24/7 internet for "cloud connection" (if not using remote access), easy to provide power backup to (operates from 5-12vdc @ around 100ma), small footprint fits in a can and generates little heat, supports external Zwave antenna, does not require PC 24/7 and the Windows maintenance that does with it. Basically, I like the box and it mostly does what I need and does it quickly, reliably and with little fuss. My disappointment lies with the excessively long delay in providing users a promised major update to support the latest (now 2 year old) Zwave devices and keypad device types. If they deliver on that promise I will be a happy camper.
IVB
Senior Member
Posted in CQC for all y'all here: Just checked, SmartThings cannot control 4 button *zone* controllers. It can control 4 button scene controllers. I, unfortunately, bought zone controllers. I needed the 1 local load plus the 3 zones, but except for the POS Leviton software it's useless. SmartThings isn't an option not just because it doesn't work for me, but the only incremental value above the ISY is the existence of a mobile app.
IVB
Senior Member
well, i finally asked in the UDI forums. Tried to be polite and respectful. Let's see what they say.
https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/23460-any-clue-when-5x-will-be-considered-a-stable-build/
https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/23460-any-clue-when-5x-will-be-considered-a-stable-build/
IVB
Senior Member
That thread isn't filling me with optimism, so I brushed off my SmartThings (literally. Batteries leaked, had to wire-brush the battery terminals) and connected via IFTTT & CQC's Web Server.
For the CQC'ers,
1) Setup SmartThings, added the 4 button controller. (Alas only the local load works, I don't think I can trap the 3 scene buttons, still looking)
2) In IFTTT, authorized SmartThings
3) Added 4 recipes per light: SmartThings-Reports-On, SmartThings-Reports-Off, CQC-WantsIt-On, CQC-WantsIt-Off
4) In CQC, added for each light add:
4a) a variables-driver boolean field (ie EntryLight)
4b) 2 global actions (TurnLightOn, TurnLightOff)
4c) 1 triggered event listening on the webserver, with 2 if-thens (LightReportedOn, LightReportedOff)
i'll duplicate this post on the CQC forums if people want details but the above should be enough to point you in the right direction.
For the CQC'ers,
1) Setup SmartThings, added the 4 button controller. (Alas only the local load works, I don't think I can trap the 3 scene buttons, still looking)
2) In IFTTT, authorized SmartThings
3) Added 4 recipes per light: SmartThings-Reports-On, SmartThings-Reports-Off, CQC-WantsIt-On, CQC-WantsIt-Off
4) In CQC, added for each light add:
4a) a variables-driver boolean field (ie EntryLight)
4b) 2 global actions (TurnLightOn, TurnLightOff)
4c) 1 triggered event listening on the webserver, with 2 if-thens (LightReportedOn, LightReportedOff)
i'll duplicate this post on the CQC forums if people want details but the above should be enough to point you in the right direction.
I have also become disheartened by the long time 5.? is taking. To even get to a Beta that is fairly stable.
I saw posts that 5.0.11b was being used by many with little issues.
I tried it and it was a disaster. Took a few hours of time just to get back where a stable 4.6.2 was working.
I have both the Alert and Siren modules that are still not supported after a few years, As it will be 5.? with support for them.
Now that Richmond Capital Partners owns Smartlabs and Smarthome. I am not even very confident on the path Insteon maybe taking.
I saw posts that 5.0.11b was being used by many with little issues.
I tried it and it was a disaster. Took a few hours of time just to get back where a stable 4.6.2 was working.
I have both the Alert and Siren modules that are still not supported after a few years, As it will be 5.? with support for them.
Now that Richmond Capital Partners owns Smartlabs and Smarthome. I am not even very confident on the path Insteon maybe taking.
IVB
Senior Member
I *finally* got a response from UDI on that thread. And the entirety of it was " If you are not happy with ISY, UDI, or how we run our business no one is forcing you to use either. "
If I have to go back to SmartThings replicating to VRCOP I may very well throw up in my mouth. I hate how Leviton has treated zWave controllers.
I was all set to move functionality from CQC to Elk & ISY in 2015, and only use CQC for optional or non-native control bits. I now find myself going the other way, and centralizing into CQC. Esp since low power Windows Embedded units are <$200 (I have one running W10 for an RDP viewer plus a Cryptocurrency proof-of-stake, works remarkably well).
This is a crappy situation. I really wanted ISY to win but that required a 2015 release of 5.x, then upgrading that awful java-based GUI which is now all but unreadable on modern laptops. Font size is tiny, even when you up it to 20 point.
If I hadn't spent $500 on an ISY plus Elk module plus portal, this wouldn't be so difficult.
If I have to go back to SmartThings replicating to VRCOP I may very well throw up in my mouth. I hate how Leviton has treated zWave controllers.
I was all set to move functionality from CQC to Elk & ISY in 2015, and only use CQC for optional or non-native control bits. I now find myself going the other way, and centralizing into CQC. Esp since low power Windows Embedded units are <$200 (I have one running W10 for an RDP viewer plus a Cryptocurrency proof-of-stake, works remarkably well).
This is a crappy situation. I really wanted ISY to win but that required a 2015 release of 5.x, then upgrading that awful java-based GUI which is now all but unreadable on modern laptops. Font size is tiny, even when you up it to 20 point.
If I hadn't spent $500 on an ISY plus Elk module plus portal, this wouldn't be so difficult.
jon102034050
Active Member
IVB said:
I understand and agree with all of your frustrations. As much as I loved my ISY when I was using it as a main controller, its short falls were extremely annoying. Part of me really wonders how long UDI will survive in this market. If you look at the HA market, the major players are ones who can create something that an idiot can use/setup. I'm not sure what the long term goals of UDI really are, but it seems to me that having an extremely tiny piece of a niche market might be what they're after, and they don't really care to compete with the giants. This gives them the ability to say things like 'see ya later' to people who ask for stuff they can't deliver.
/rant
All that being said, I really do hope they can release a 5.x stable at some point. I use my ISY on 5.0.11 only for non-critical items, and it functions relatively well. I'd love to move to a stable release and would happily pay to support the company if they could release multi-channel support.
IVB
Senior Member
well, the attitude of ignoring a customer request for weeks despite multiple posts, then only coming in to say "nobody is forcing you to use our product" certainly doesn't engender the levels of customer loyalty and public champions that are required to maintain a viable business in the HA space. And that's assuming you had a product that could keep up with the marketplace.
It's increasingly apparent that the market is moving too quickly for hardware/firmware controllers to keep up. Given the plummet in price of Windows embedded ultra low power systems powerful enough to run CQC, HomeSeer, OpenHAB, a PC-based system might be the most viable future facing path. I think my fanless Win10 embedded PC runs at 7 watts.
It's increasingly apparent that the market is moving too quickly for hardware/firmware controllers to keep up. Given the plummet in price of Windows embedded ultra low power systems powerful enough to run CQC, HomeSeer, OpenHAB, a PC-based system might be the most viable future facing path. I think my fanless Win10 embedded PC runs at 7 watts.
