It was the GFCI

rrockoff

Active Member
This problem occurred during a long project. I will do my best to keep it short and to the point.

Background -
We moved into a new semi custom home (choose the model of house and pay $ to specify modifications to the original plan) over a year ago. During the build I spent more than most people in my neighborhood on pre-wiring (alarm, surround sound, etc). I have been working in stages to connect all of the wires.

Stage 1 - Connect all alarm wires to ELK M1 - Done
Stage 2 - Purchase hardware and install 7.1 surround in the Great Room - Done
Stage 3 - Purchase hardware and install 7.1 surround in the Master Suite, including extra speaker zones in the bathroom and retreat- Getting Close
Stage 4 - Install CCTV cameras - 2 out of 8 installed
Stage 5 - Build and install front gate for the courtyard with magnetic lock - Not started.
Stage 6 - Purchase hardware and install 7.1 surround in the Media Room - Not started

Problem -
Six months ago, I got a killer deal on a 27 inch LCD TV / monitor at Office Depot (wouldn't you buy it for $250?). When I bought it, I knew it was going to be mounted in the bathroom for bathtub / getting ready for work viewing. I had the builder run all speaker wires, a wire for IR, CAT6 for ethernet, and RG6 for TV to the bathroom closet. Unfortunately, due to a misunderstanding, they did not run power to this closet. Good thing the master bedroom is on the 2nd story of the house. I climbed into the attic and picked a wire to add the circuit. The wire I chose turned out to be part of the bathroom GFCI circuit. I ran a circuit into the closet for the stereo and cable box, and a circuit for the TV on the wall outside the closet.

Frustration -
I tested my new outlets by plugging in a lamp. The lamp turned on. As far as I knew I was fine. I mounted the TV on the wall, and invited my wife to check out the handiwork of her over confident husband. She pressed the power button for the TV and the GFCI immediately popped (so did my ego). I had a stereo and cable box connected to the closet outlet on the same circuit. Neither one of them popped the GFCI. I tried the TV in the closet outlet and it worked. The new wall outlet was wired correctly. So I figured that I had a DOA outlet. Made a trip back to the hardware store and replaced the outlet. Turned on the TV, and it worked. Tried a vacuum cleaner on the same outlet for good measure, still worked. Problem fixed! ...Or so I thought. I turned on the TV later, and the GFCI popped again. I wiggled the power cable in the outlet and the TV did not pop the GFCI. My next thought was that it must be a short in the cable between the back of the socket and the back of the electrical box. Unfortunately I did not give myself enough slack. Back to the hardware store for more Romex. I ran a new wire from the attic to the new wall outlet. Again the TV turned on for a few times and then popped the GFCI. I tried the TV in the new closet outlet. It also popped the GFCI. At this point I was getting a bit frustrated as the TV worked when plugged into the closet outlet before. I looked on web and found others who have had issues with TVs and monitors on GFCI circuits. It seems these products can pop a GFCI.

Out of desperation, I talked to a friend who is a general contractor. He said that he has seen a defective GFCI cause this type of issue. With fingers crossed, I made one more trip to the hardware store to purchase a new GFCI. I told the clerk at the store about my problem. His response was that all GFCIs are the same. He suggested I keep the packaging so that I can return it when it didn't fix my problem. Lucky for me, he was wrong. I installed the new GFCI and have powered on the TV more than 2 dozen times. The new GFCI has not popped once.

Conclusion -
I never thought of replacing the GFCI ,as it seemed to work with other devices plugged into the same circuit.

I hope my story can help someone else.

Best Regards,

Rod
 
Yes, old GFCI's will fail (i.e. the ground fault circuit no longer works) and you will never know. The building code was changed in 2007? (or was it 2006, I can't remember off the top of my head) to fix this. New GFCI outlets are now required to fail with the circuit open so that you know that the unit is defective. You can tell if you have a new one by looking for a small padel-lock symbol in one of the four corners. If it has the symbol, you have one of the new units that will automatically break the circuit if it fails.
 
Nice to know Dublin... I had not heard that. I have been an electrician for 26 years.. my input to the GFI situation (besides that not all GFIs are created equal...) is to also pay attention to the weather... If you have an outside outlet downstream from the GFI and it has been raining... that may be the culprit.
Lisa
 
Thanks for the info, I'm going to check all of mine now. Maybe it's a good idea to update at least the bathrooms to the newer versions for the time being
 
Nice to know Dublin... I had not heard that. I have been an electrician for 26 years.. my input to the GFI situation (besides that not all GFIs are created equal...) is to also pay attention to the weather... If you have an outside outlet downstream from the GFI and it has been raining... that may be the culprit.
Lisa

Yeah, I know what you mean, I've heard very little about this myself, and stumbled across it by accident:

"New requirements for ground-fault circuit interrupters (GFCIs) take effect on July 28, 2006. The requirements arise from a 2001 field study, which discovered that a small but significant number of GFCIs that did not work after several years, creating a demand for more stringent safety features to alert users of a malfunction. New GFCI requirements from Underwriters Laboratories (UL) and the Electrical Safety Foundation International (ESFI) now call for:

• An end-of-life provision. When a GFCI receptacle no longer can provide ground-fault protection, it either will render itself incapable of delivering power or indicate visually or audibly that it must be replaced.

• Reverse line-load miswire. The GFCI will deny power to the receptacle if it is miswired.
www.esfi.org; www.ul.org"

There is a sunset provision, so old style outlets can still be sold and installed. As usual, most likely only new construction requires the new outlets. If you look for them in HomeDepot/Lowes you'll see them, as an exmample look for Leviton "Smartlock" with the little padel-lock symbol on the packaging. Other brands probably have something similar, just haven't seen it myself.
 
Nice to know Dublin... I had not heard that. I have been an electrician for 26 years.. my input to the GFI situation (besides that not all GFIs are created equal...) is to also pay attention to the weather... If you have an outside outlet downstream from the GFI and it has been raining... that may be the culprit.
Lisa

Yeah, I know what you mean, I've heard very little about this myself, and stumbled across it by accident:

"New requirements for ground-fault circuit interrupters (GFCIs) take effect on July 28, 2006. The requirements arise from a 2001 field study, which discovered that a small but significant number of GFCIs that did not work after several years, creating a demand for more stringent safety features to alert users of a malfunction. New GFCI requirements from Underwriters Laboratories (UL) and the Electrical Safety Foundation International (ESFI) now call for:

• An end-of-life provision. When a GFCI receptacle no longer can provide ground-fault protection, it either will render itself incapable of delivering power or indicate visually or audibly that it must be replaced.

• Reverse line-load miswire. The GFCI will deny power to the receptacle if it is miswired.
www.esfi.org; www.ul.org"

There is a sunset provision, so old style outlets can still be sold and installed. As usual, most likely only new construction requires the new outlets. If you look for them in HomeDepot/Lowes you'll see them, as an exmample look for Leviton "Smartlock" with the little padel-lock symbol on the packaging. Other brands probably have something similar, just haven't seen it myself.

Thanks for the additional info.

I just checked. My builder used the older style of GFCI without smartlock. My house started build in May of 2005 and was completed August 2006. I guess the building inspector didn't know about the rule or they worked around the issue due to the start date.


Best Regards,

Rod
 
FYI - My house actually has GFCI's with the lock. My house was closed in December of 2005, built before then of course...
 
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