kgingerich's new home

I'll think you'll find that to get acceptable results using TTS, you'll need to find a reliable way to trigger the CAV paging input with 12v whenever your system is speaking.

I'm not very familiar with CQC so not certain if Dean has any mechanism currently in place to provide the feedback when the system is speaking? If this already exists in CQC, or if Dean can add for you, it should be trivial to get this working once you decide on the hardware side (CQC controllable relay device).

Cheers,
Paul
 
Does the CAV have a page on/off command in the serial protocol? I used toi control my Nuvo via 12V from the Elk and it was not 100% reliable, so I added Page On/Off commands to the Nuvo driver and now it is virtually 100%. You can always add a pause here and there if needed to give amps a chance to engage, etc. I know there is a Russound driver for CQC but it does not look like it has a Page command. I don't know if its in the protocol or not. If it is, it should be able to be added easily to the driver.
 
The Russound serial protocol doesn't support triggering or enabling/disabling paging (although you can configure which zones accept paging during configuration).

What you can control via serial is zone DND (Do Not Distrurb). When a zone is set to DND, it will not accept pages.

With these capabilities, you could configure certain zones to NEVER accept pages (during setup), and then use serial to enable or disable DND on other zones to selectively pick which zones will receive the page.
 
I'm not very familiar with CQC so not certain if Dean has any mechanism currently in place to provide the feedback when the system is speaking? If this already exists in CQC, or if Dean can add for you, it should be trivial to get this working once you decide on the hardware side (CQC controllable relay device).

Cheers,
Paul
thanks paul. i have posted on the cqc forum asking about trigger devices. hopefully, the solution is not too painful.

my hope was to aviod having to install an elk or hai controller. cqc is well integrated with both of these controllers. does anyone know if either or both of these could be used as the trigger to the cav for doorbell ring and detecting a phone call?
 
Either the Elk M1 or HAI OmniPro can detect the phone ringing or when a doorbell is pressed. To detect the doorbell, both units would need an auxilliary doorbell detection circuit like the Elk-930 (which can also interface with the phone). This in turn is wired to input(s) on the Elk or Omni which can then trigger automation events in CQC.

If you don't need a full blown security system like the M1 or OmniPro, another CQC supported device like the Global Cache connnected to the Elk-930 could work as well.

The GC-100-12 has three relay outputs and six sensor inputs... this device could provide the relay output for Russound CAV6.6 audio paging plus the inputs to detect front and rear doorbell plus phone ring (via Elk-930) and still have three inputs left over. You'd need to confirm that CQC has full support of the Global Cache devices... I know it supports their IR and serial interface over Ethernet, but not certain about the I/O?

Cheers,
Paul
 
Hi Gents,

I am trying to figure out the pre-wiring requirements for a new construction and want to include multizone home house audio (probably russound CAM/CAV 6.6). For this it seems that a cat5 from the CAV/CAM to the wall controller will do the trick. For the whole house audio it seems the keypayd is home runned to the amp and so are the speakers.

Would the system above already include paging functions in the keypads or does that need to be seperately added?

If i read the Russound compoint wiring it seems that i need an additional Cat5 plus speaker wiring run from amp to keypad to speakers (vs directly from amp to speakers). Is this correct?

In order to make the wiring flexible for whatever system i choose i could run the speaker wiring from the amp in the basement to the keypad and then to the speakers. If I don't install the paging/intercom then the wiring just continous past the whole house audio keypad and if i install the intercom it loops through the intercom keypad. Am i on the right track here?

If the above is all correct the question remains whether a singel cat5 from the basmeent (amp location) the the wall controller is enough to run both the whole house audio control keypad and the intercom system. From my research so far it seems this is not the case and i would need 2 cat5 cables.

The problem is compounded by me wanting to be ready for possible hardwired lighting control (OnQ style) for which i understand essentially all it needed is 4 wire for the polling loop (but cat5 suggested). If i want audio, intercom and lighting it would seem i need to run 3 cat5 to the switch locations. This seems a bit over the top to me, especially since it is likley i cannot do the pre-wire myself and will have to pay the building to do it. If i was doing it myself i wouln't care too much.

Any advice greatly appreciated.
 
Hi Gents,

I am trying to figure out the pre-wiring requirements for a new construction and want to include multizone home house audio (probably russound CAM/CAV 6.6). For this it seems that a cat5 from the CAV/CAM to the wall controller will do the trick. For the whole house audio it seems the keypayd is home runned to the amp and so are the speakers.

Would the system above already include paging functions in the keypads or does that need to be seperately added?

If i read the Russound compoint wiring it seems that i need an additional Cat5 plus speaker wiring run from amp to keypad to speakers (vs directly from amp to speakers). Is this correct?

In order to make the wiring flexible for whatever system i choose i could run the speaker wiring from the amp in the basement to the keypad and then to the speakers. If I don't install the paging/intercom then the wiring just continous past the whole house audio keypad and if i install the intercom it loops through the intercom keypad. Am i on the right track here?

If the above is all correct the question remains whether a singel cat5 from the basmeent (amp location) the the wall controller is enough to run both the whole house audio control keypad and the intercom system. From my research so far it seems this is not the case and i would need 2 cat5 cables.

The problem is compounded by me wanting to be ready for possible hardwired lighting control (OnQ style) for which i understand essentially all it needed is 4 wire for the polling loop (but cat5 suggested). If i want audio, intercom and lighting it would seem i need to run 3 cat5 to the switch locations. This seems a bit over the top to me, especially since it is likley i cannot do the pre-wire myself and will have to pay the building to do it. If i was doing it myself i wouln't care too much.

Any advice greatly appreciated.
I don't know the OnQ end but the audio and intercom portions are correct. Loop the speaker level and run 2 cat5's to KP locations.
 
I don't know the OnQ end but the audio and intercom portions are correct. Loop the speaker level and run 2 cat5's to KP locations.

Yes, for OnQ, just run cat5. Also, you don't need to run a cat5 to every single switch box...if several are nearby, just run it past/through them all. I think I may have hit 3 at most with 1 wire.

For intercom/keypads, I ran a cat5 and a 22/4 wire...hopefully that will take care of most possibilities.
 
I think i will homerun a cat5 to all locations where i expect a audio keypad, i can do without the intercom i think. Do the different audio systems work differently as far as their wiring? So far i have looked at Russound where it seems i can run the speaker wires completely separate (i.e. not via KP).

Do other systems work the same or is it wise to run a 14/4 for speakers along with a cat5e via the KP location to keep my options open?

Basically i do not want to be locked into any solution at the time of pre-wire.

For lighting i would run a cat5 via multiple switch locations. Would this work for multiple solutions? Of course the UPB, Instean, Z-Wave are always there as choices since they essentially require no pre-wiring.

Slowly but surely i'm starting to get a clearer picture in my head as to what i need for pre-wiring.
 
updated Images in original post.
What an incredible installation! I can only imagine the amount of work involved.

Thank you for the kind words. Yes it's taken many hours but it's fun work. :p

Out of 90 some odd contacts I'm still happy to report that only 1 is not working correctly. I was honestly expecting more since this is my first time installing a security system.

The one that isn't working is behaving very oddly and maybe someone here knows why. If I test the circuit with an ohms meter while it's not cross connected to the ELK I get 2.2 Ohms as expected. When it's connected to the ELK I get 1. something Ohms as expected. Now if I turn on the ELK it reports that zone as violated. I then check that contact again and get a ohms reading of zero, as if the window is open. When I turn off the ELK the zone still shows open but if I wait a while it'll eventually start reading 2.2 ohms again.

Any ideas? Bad contact maybe?
 
hmmm, this is odd. I take it that this is a "stand alone" cable pair going directly to the sensor. Take the sensor cable off of the Elk and hook it to the meter directly (make sure your hands do not touch the contacts. I like to use clip leads).

If you have a manual ohms scale place it in the highest range, then open the zone. You should see infinite resistance with this higher scale. If not, the cable or contact may have a high resistance short somewhere.

If that test went well, select the lowest range and use a hand held magnet and run it around the sensor to get a feel for the gap distance and possibly any alignment problems that may occur when the zone is closed with its regular mounted magnet. A good way to do this is place the meter so it emits a beep on contact closure and listen for it (if you are in hearing distance. If not have someone shout it out to you).

This will hopefully determine if the problem is with the sensor or the Elk itself.

To test the Elk itself just short out the zone inputs with a wire and see what happens.

Also, make sure your zones are EOL disabled as it sounds from the ohm results in your post that you are not using them.

Hope this helps. Let me know if this didn't make sense (I ramble sometimes...) :p

EDIT: Just noticed that you are going through a lot of punchdowns by the time the zone sensor reaches the Elk. Make sure to do the above tests with the wires going to the Elk itself (so you take all those connections into consideration with the tests).
 
Hi Kyle

What i think might be happening with your suspect zone is that one leg of the circuit is somehow grounded ...the one thats connected to the zone input.... Try swapping the suspect zone wires over at the elk end ....

Did you mean 2.2 ohms or 2k2 ohms ???......

HTH
Frank
 
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