LAN network for home automation?

[popo]

Hello all! New member here- First post...

I'm a newbie to home automation, but not quite. I have an engineering background, specifically regarding automation (Mechatronics degree)-- So my interest for this stuff has been there for a while. I will catch up quickly here with the cocoon tech community!

So anyway.. here's my question:

Is it possible to create an integral home automation system that relies on LAN? - (Lights, alarms, cameras, entertainment -A/V, communications (internet,phone,etc), energy, water, gas) PC LAN controlled system? I know that most if not all the home automation networks work on Powerline-based systems.

I'm interested on creating my customized Lan network to do this, with a central computer for house control as a backbone in which all software and systems will be held. The differene would be that it would require Ethernet CAT5 cable, or even fiberoptics, but not through the powerline.

Please provide any info, opinion, guide, tutorial, examples, etc. (wether or not this is possible)- I have read a lot about standard home automation systems (which I don't discard), but haven't found anything like this (which sounds as something that should exist).

 

[Sacarino]

Please provide any info, opinion, guide, tutorial, examples, etc. (wether or not this is possible)- I have read a lot about standard home automation systems (which I don't discard), but haven't found anything like this (which sounds as something that should exist).

Welcome.

Check out XAP, that might be right up your alley.

 

[jaymartin]

TCP/IP is really very heavy-weight for embedded control systems, although there are now some things coming to market. My feeling is that it's not well suited for things like lighting control, where the cost/complexity of having an embedded IP-based device just doesn't make it practical in things like light switches and simple I/O devices.

For some things IP is good - AV control (possibly), cameras, communications, etc. For the lighter-weight things, you'll probably want to pick one of the existing HA standards (INSTEON, UPB, Z-Wave, Zigbee) and use your PC as the hub to tie it all together. The last two are wireless, and ZigBee is based on open standards so has the promise of much better interoperability once it picks up some steam. ZigBee is also pushing very hard into the energy markets where its seen a higher adoption rate.

 

[DavidL]

As Jay mentions, reality typically means a blend of communications technologies to get the job done.
For example, not very many homes have a TCP network cabling to each light switch each module that does the actual load switching. But they do have 110 volts (in US). Powerline communication was to make best use of that fact.

The central controller in an automated home usually is what abstracts the various components from each other so that each component has a way of interacting with each other, while being connected in the "optimal" way to the rest of system.

The central controller can be a proprietary embedded controller (like a Crestron processor), or an advanced home automation / security embedded box (HAI / Elk) or a PC based controller running automation software (like CQC / Homeseer / MainLobby / many others).

There's always a newer way to connect something to each other. Bluetooth 4.0 was just started. It's goal is to power "all" low powered devices, potentially like a wireless lighting switch, so that battery replacement is very infrequent. That would communicate to the PC via bluetooth, the PC's software would broker that information to an "older" lighting network like Insteon / UPB / X10 / Crestron, etc. Many ways to accomplish the end goal.

 

[wuench]

As Jay mentions, reality typically means a blend of communications technologies to get the job done.
For example, not very many homes have a TCP network cabling to each light switch each module that does the actual load switching. But they do have 110 volts (in US). Powerline communication was to make best use of that fact.

And the NEC doesn't allow for low voltage and high voltage to be run into the same box in most places.

 

[JimS]

With ethernet working its way into smaller devices it seems to me that a network backbone would be good especially if the main controller has ethernet. I am using a PC with Misterhouse so that part of the network comes "free". I have a number of serial items (weather station, LCD keypads, planned homebrew sprinkler controller, etc) so have a terminal server that converts ethernet to 8 serial ports. The terminal server can be connected to the network at a different location from the PC which gives some flexibility in wire routing.

As others have mentioned, a blend of communication is usually the way to go. There are lots of ways to go so there isn't an easy, one size fits all answer.

For power control I have a minimal setup with X10 with the controller being another serial item but long term I think something more reliable would be better. Haven't figured out which way to go on this.

Some HA uses RS485 but that seems to be more of an industrial standard - I don't believe it is used that much for HA. Good for low speed, long runs and easy to convert from RS-232 to 485 and back. RS485 allows multiple devices on the same wires - similar to ethernet in that regard although no extra hardware (router or hub) is needed for RS485. I have considered using that for some of my stuff.

Haven't figured out IR distribution yet. Was going with serial port hardware with LIRC (Linux) but it won't work on the terminal server. Has to have a real port on the PC. Still thinking about this...

Things like the $35 ethernet node discussed in another thread looks attractive. But the software doesn't make use of all the hardware (yet) so it is somewhat limited.

Would be interested in what others have to say because this always seems to be a complex area with lots of choices.

 

[pete_c]

Personally I like the evolution of powerline in the last 30 years or so.

I would like to see a "do all" powerline switch which utilizes standard networking protocols to intercommunicate between switches (maybe having its own mini web browser or even just basic ssh, telnet and ftp would suffice) and just includes some basic lighting or power technologies with the abilities to create a mini network grid (pun) intelligent "cluster" of light switches. I would though like to add the ability of the switch to monitor power giving me an internal look at my power usage thruout the home (maybe adding fuse panel breakers to the mix). The industry standards of any serial communications is a bit antiquated having been around for XX years now.

 

[gatchel]

As Jay mentions, reality typically means a blend of communications technologies to get the job done.
For example, not very many homes have a TCP network cabling to each light switch each module that does the actual load switching. But they do have 110 volts (in US). Powerline communication was to make best use of that fact.

And the NEC doesn't allow for low voltage and high voltage to be run into the same box in most places.

I thought the wire just had to have the same temperature and voltage ratings...

 

[wuench]

As Jay mentions, reality typically means a blend of communications technologies to get the job done.
For example, not very many homes have a TCP network cabling to each light switch each module that does the actual load switching. But they do have 110 volts (in US). Powerline communication was to make best use of that fact.

And the NEC doesn't allow for low voltage and high voltage to be run into the same box in most places.

I thought the wire just had to have the same temperature and voltage ratings...

Well if that's the case, what happens if your high voltage shorts to your CAT5? Sure the wire may survive, but I don't think network equipment is rated to take 120V on it's CAT5 ports, I would think a fire is a good possibility. And in reality, is there really a CAT5 cable that can take that jolt? By standards it is 8x24ga wires...

I know some wired lighting vendors have little tricks around these NEC rules, though.

 

[WayneW]

Well if that's the case, what happens if your high voltage shorts to your CAT5? Sure the wire may survive, but I don't think network equipment is rated to take 120V on it's CAT5 ports, I would think a fire is a good possibility. And in reality, is there really a CAT5 cable that can take that jolt? By standards it is 8x24ga wires...

True, 120V getting into a piece of gear intended for low voltage may damage the gear. I have no idea what the rules/standards are for how equipment should/must fail/protect when subjected to abnormal conditions.

But for the wiring itself, 120V is safe on 24 ga wires. It won't carry much current safely, but the voltage is fine. Basically the voltage limit is determined by the insulation and the current limit is determined by the wire.

I believe the pink C-bus cat5 cable is rated for 600V or 1000V.
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=107816
NEC 300.3C
http://books.google.com/books?id=fBkUkF2ZR....3C&f=false

 

[jharrell]

Ethernet-TCP/IP (Wired,Wireless,Coax,Powerline) is the end game for home automation and is what we need to strive for.

All in one embedded ethernet modules with tcp/ip stacks and web servers are down almost to a feasable price and size level for embedding in switches see: Digi Connect

Heck an iPod touch is basically the size of a Decora faceplate and not much more expensive than a UPB room controller.

It also looks like Ethernet-TCP/IP over powerline is getting a IEEE standard, I would love to see this replace UPB, high speed, encrypted, just open a web browser to configure the device: IEEE 1901

 

[popo]

Hello and thank you all you guys for your replies... Excellent info! I've read each and everyone and there is very interesting info there, so please keep it comming! It's really encouraging to see fast answers to my first post.

Definitely understand what some were saying about a blend of technologies... it sounds so logical to use ethernet for the heavy stuff... such as A/V, communications and stuff... specially cause I would like to take it to the the ultimate level and get some very cool functions on each of them (Choose video sources on each rooms and be able to show feeds in multiple rooms simultaneously for example)-- I guess this is what everyone wants anyway.

Complementing an ethernet-backbone with a powerline network just for low-complexity items such as lighting sounds good... but not having it as your main source of HA. And at the end controlling this throught the computer would be the end goal.

XAP and DigiConnect sound promising...

I just one clear thing for my HA project by now: Central controller is my way to go... then a LAN (IP) backbone... complemented by every other necessary protocol or network (call it powerline, wireless, blutooth, etc.) to move I/O simple devices but finally communicating again to the central PC.

I guess there's a lot of stuff to keep reading here on Cocoontech...

 

[AceCannon]

I ran cat5e to every lightswitch location in the house, 4 runs to every video location, 1 to each audio keypad, and a bunch to other places. Probably 12k or 13k feet in all.

My ALC lighting is not TCP/IP, but the cat5e can of course be re-purposed at any time in the future.

The security keypads are Elk and as such are RS485. But there is cat5e going to the keypads, anyway.

My advice is to run wiring aggressively while you can (did you say you have access to the insides of your walls? Or is this a remodel?). The whole enchilada is not likely going to be LAN-based from the getgo, but the wiring is most important part as far as future-proofing.

 

[pete_c]

Ideally though it would be better to utilize powerline for the mechanism of transport for TCP/IP rather than an autonomous interconnection between switches.

 

[avsfan733]

Hello all! New member here- First post...

I'm a newbie to home automation, but not quite. I have an engineering background, specifically regarding automation (Mechatronics degree)-- So my interest for this stuff has been there for a while. I will catch up quickly here with the cocoon tech community!

it sounds like your describing something more along the lines of industrial automation. You might check out National Instruments and LabVIEW. which is full scale customization but is really targeted at more robust and precise controls then light dimmers (no offense to anyone here). Theres also quite a price tag attached to something like this, but it will do anything