Leviton C3 SIM

[ano]

SIM stands for Subscriber Identity Module. Its just like your drivers licence, it just proves who you are and what services you can use.  GSM, GPRS, CDMA, WCDMA, and LTE are technologies, and unless the radio in the device and the radio in the network match, its not going to work, and a SIM card really has nothing to do with that.  The C3 and AT&T and T-Mobile all use GSM which uses a plain-old GSM SIM card. It makes no difference in the world that Verizon uses a SIM card, its not going to let a GSM device access Verizon's CDMA network. Period. 
 
Now Verizon and AT&T and and Sprint and T-Mobile all support LTE (4G). Since CDMA never had a SIM card, the Verizon SIM card gives some compatability to a wider range of devices. Since the C3 doesn't support LTE, Verizon's SIM will not work in it.

 

[RobNJ]

So what you're saying is a GSM will transmit on a CDMA network? Not going to happen, no way, no how, no matter how you analyze it.
 
Remember, the C3 is NOT data, so 3/4G service is inconsequential. The C3 uses the voice sideband and zero data link. 
 
Look at the C3's specs: GSM/GPRS (NOT CDMA!) the networks are NOT interchangeable. If they were, then Uplink, Telular, Alarmnet and DSC/C24 have quite a racket by supporting one technology or selling different units for the different networks.

Not sure if you were commenting on my post, but I did not say GSM will work on CDMA (or the other way around).  4G LTE is a shared technology now between the carriers, so only phones with this radio (and unlocked) will work on AT&T and Verizon.
 
But we are deviating from the main topic.  As we know C3 is 3G GSM and I still would like to know what happens witht he T-Mobile SIM in the C3 when customer service is contacted from the C3.
 
And by the way, if anyone is wondering, even the voice in 3G (GSM or CDMA) is "data" or really encoded as packetized data.  It is just put on the channels assigned for voice traffic and not the ones dedicated to data traffic.

 

[drvnbysound]

Not sure if you were commenting on my post, but I did not say GSM will work on CDMA (or the other way around).  4G LTE is a shared technology now between the carriers, so only phones with this radio (and unlocked) will work on AT&T and Verizon.
 
But we are deviating from the main topic.  As we know C3 is 3G GSM and I still would like to know what happens witht he T-Mobile SIM in the C3 when customer service is contacted from the C3.
 
And by the way, if anyone is wondering, even the voice in 3G (GSM or CDMA) is "data" or really encoded as packetized data.  It is just put on the channels assigned for voice traffic and not the ones dedicated to data traffic.

 
I think that was the point... because it's 3G GSM the 4G LTE discussion is irrelevant. Which leads back to the original point that Verizon SIMs are probably not going to work with the C3.
 
Additionally, the service (whether monthly or pre-paid) only needs to contain a plan for voice service. Subscribing to a plan that includes data usage would be of no use for the C3. Sure, if you are an AT&T or T-Mobile subscriber and already have a plan that you are adding the C3 SIM to, it's not really much of an issue. However, there are many with other carriers (e.g. Verizon) who go the route of a pre-paid phone with X minutes and pull the SIM, and pre-paying for a plan that includes data... for what?!

 

[Del91574]

I believe I made my point however....I'll say one last thing. Once the signal gets to the tower (how it does is inconsequential because it's voice based service, and doesn't touch on the 3/4G portion of the network or data....hell you can have the thing hit edge service and it doesn't care) it's of little consequence how or what portion of the signal moves from A to B....that's the carrier's issue, but the signal needs to get from the C3 to the tower to begin with...and via GSM.
 
I can kill the data portion/signal feeding a cell and still have cell signal. It's how the repeaters installed in many buildings work, they don't feed the entire spectrum into the building but only repeat the cellular signal (though more and more new construction has variations of the theme).

 

[ano]

Just keep in mind. While you all argue over things that have no effect on the C3, you haven't mention one little thing that DOES matter. Wireless operators are turning off their GSM networks, and soon your C3 will be a very fancy paperweight.  The plans are that these networks will be shut off in 2016, but in some areas they are being shut off sooner. The fact of the matter is that GSM networks are very ineffecient with spectrum use, so you can say bye bye to GSM. AT&T in 2012 started sending letters to customers about this and they have exchanged out phones in customer hands. Pretty soon it will be lights-out for the C3 then FINALLY these crazy conversations can stop.

 

[RobNJ]

Just keep in mind. While you all argue over things that have no effect on the C3, you haven't mention one little thing that DOES matter. Wireless operators are turning off their GSM networks, and soon your C3 will be a very fancy paperweight.  The plans are that these networks will be shut off in 2016, but in some areas they are being shut off sooner. The fact of the matter is that GSM networks are very ineffecient with spectrum use, so you can say bye bye to GSM. AT&T in 2012 started sending letters to customers about this and they have exchanged out phones in customer hands. Pretty soon it will be lights-out for the C3 then FINALLY these crazy conversations can stop.

True.  And not that long ago I contacted HAI and asked if there were any plans for an upgrade or new box and they said they could not comment at this time.  I would imagine there will be a replacement with newer technology.  And if it uses LTE, then you could shop between more carriers for best price. 
 
BTW, AT&T still sells a box (3G) that functions similar, without the tie into your landline service, so it would be completely wireless.  Does not come with a remote antenna, which may be a problem for some installed locations (unless you use your own):  http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/devices/att/wireless-home-phone-silver.html?WT.srch=1&wtPaidSearchTerm=home+phone#fbid=ufGLHQQBL0-
I would think they would also offer a version with newer technology when they phase out 3G.

 

[Del91574]

I think people should stop seeing the C3 as a viable option. I've beaten the dead horse, but when it comes to communication and reliability in addition to functionality it's a second rate product compared to a real cellular communicator. All in the name for price and the ability for the end user to provide their own SIM....for literally the same cost (or more) than a unit designed for the purpose.
 
I can't see the ATT link where I am, but I hope that isn't the microcell. Whole host of issues involved with that suggestion.
 
3G isn't going anywhere soon.

 

[Superjer2000]

The only point on which I would disagree with the below is that the C3 is a great option for those that self-monitor.  If you do not intend to use a monitoring company then (I believe) a cellular communicator is essentially useless.  I have a C3 connected to my Elk and so when an alarm goes off it first calls my cell phone, then it calls my wife's cell phone and it also lets my wife/kids get a hold of me in case of an emergency by pressing F1 on any keypad thanks to the M1's Two Way adapter (I can also listen in if an the M1 calls when an alarm is going off).  The audio information communicated by the M1 when an alarm goes off is pretty sparse but it would then prompt me to check my phone for e-mail updates on violated zones etc provided by Elve or to log into EKeypad.
 
Lastly, I have a "heartbeat" if you will whereby the M1 calls my cell phone every Sunday at  12:00p to let me know "Telephone line is active" as I did have  C3 that died a premature death which I didn't know until some time later.

I think people should stop seeing the C3 as a viable option. I've beaten the dead horse, but when it comes to communication and reliability in addition to functionality it's a second rate product compared to a real cellular communicator. All in the name for price and the ability for the end user to provide their own SIM....for literally the same cost (or more) than a unit designed for the purpose.
 
I can't see the ATT link where I am, but I hope that isn't the microcell. Whole host of issues involved with that suggestion.
 
3G isn't going anywhere soon.

 

[Del91574]

That would be the only way it'd be suitable, but then self monitoring is less than an ideal solution for most.
 
You touched on part of the biggest issue....there's no supervision or notification on the C3 and while a test call is one way to do this, until that event happens or fails, all the hardware and you are happy and none the wiser.

 

[sda]

I'm using a C3.   It calls my local security company dispatch with a custom voice message.  It probably saves a few minutes vs. going through an alarm service.  Its also a priority response vs. the local yokels who are more interested in eating donuts than protecting my stuff. 
 
I know that eventually I'll have to replace it, and by then maybe there will be something similar.  I paid $221 for the dialer (Amazon has it today for $212.71), and $100 for one year of cell service.
 
One of the reasons I went with the C3 vs something else was that the C3 had a simple "formula"  for making it work with the Elk (i.e. get a C3, get an AT&T SIM and a bulk minute plan).  When searching the forum, other devices seemed to be hit and miss as to which model would work and how it would integrate.  I'd love to hear some detailed DIY success stories of the Elk using other communicators.

 

[Del91574]

And in a case like yours, there is no reason that a "real" cellular to an appropriate alarm monitoring service and then their dispatch wouldn't work.....
 
All the dispatch service would need is a receiver and automation software and in actuality, I'd be amazed if they didn't have it...hell half the moderately sized healthcare sites I deal with have their own CS receiver and automation software. I'd be amazed if your private company didn't have a receiver that supported at least one data format (if not a universal one) 
 
I've used the Uplink 2500/4500 and XSP method, the dialer capture Uplink units, Telular TG1, TG1E, TG4, TG7 and DSC 3060's.

 

[RobNJ]

I know the C3 is a DIY'ers solution, but for me it had a secondary benefit not too long ago.
 
Recently for some reason our regular landline failed.  I know it is rare, but does occur.  We would get dial tone, dial out and every call we made went nowhere and incomming calls just rang forever.
 
So all I had to do was dial "*" and I then had the C3 take over outbound calls for the time being. 
 
Only lasted for ~24 hours, but at least I had peace of mind that we had phone service (wife has a cell phone, but kids do not), just had to remind the wife and kids to press "*".  If the landline dialtone would have been totally gone, this would not have been needed.

 

[Del91574]

Rob,

You don't mention if the signal is POTS or VOIP (or the marketing ploy, digital voice ) But your symptoms sound like almost every VOIP customer I know of with an ATA that develops internet issues. The only time I've seen similar is when a telephone slick site goes down, but usually that's in a street or neighborhood level failure and very rare....and only when the Telco never ran enough copper to an area to begin with. I used to service a condo complex with ~500 alarm panels installed (for fire and low temp only) with their own head end at the security office....every power outage, the panels would perform a dialer test 12 hours later. Took a while to figure out what was happening and all the comm fails. Telco didn't have enough copper up the mountain, crashed the slick site every time.

 

[Photon]

DEL, what is a slick site?  Are they common?

 

[Del91574]

Very common.
 
Think about it. The Telco doesn't have enough copper pairs to feed every house and every street in a town/city/etc. They use slick sites to route the feeds coming from a particular trunk into a backbone to the CO.
 
Basically the topography is usually a few T-1 lines to the slick to bring the service back to the CO....more efficient on copper, but if you have too much activity you crash the slick. Basically, unless you are on the line with a big mass of copper on the pole or close to the CO, you are connected to a slick.