Light Controller for Florescent Bulbs (that won't leak voltage/flicker)

[cgott4242]

Which technology and adapter would you recommend to control a 48" shop light florescent bulb (plugs into 3 prong outlet).
I need something non z-wave that will work with my Harmony remote b/c I want to connect an independent motion detector to toggle the light as someone walks in/out of the room. Z-Wave won't work b/c it needs to be commected to the network and thus can't connect to the appliance module controlling the light as it's controlled by the Harmony remote which doesn't support motion detectors.

 

[briankelly63]

How about just old X10 with an appliance module? There is also a motion sensor for X10...

http://www.x10.com/security/ms10a_s.html

 

[cgott4242]

How about just old X10 with an appliance module? There is also a motion sensor for X10...

http://www.x10.com/security/ms10a_s.html

I don't think (please correct me if I'm wrong) that they have an appliance module that will not have leakage causing he flourescent bulb to blink whn eit's supposed to be off (at least that's what I heard, and what happened when I used he appliance module that I had from them

 

[intozwave]

Here is old school automation for your flourescent light: http://www.smarthome-products.com/p-1013-l...ncy-sensor.aspx

 

[krmiller53]

Just as a FYI, I have two of the older Zwave ZIR000 PIRs controlling two Zwave Intermatic HA02 appliance modules on their own without any computer control. The only rub there is that you do need a network 'controller', (a HA09 would work) AND a way to program the PIRs, I use HS2. They both control (23w, 40w) CFLs flawlessly. Also, just FYI, you can have many independent Zwave 'networks' as long as you have one master controller (such as the HA09) for each. I am using some of the older VIZIA Zwave appliance modules with limited results (the fluorescents have a noticeable flicker when off).

I would shy away from INSTEON due to (personal experience) the fact that fluorescent lights tend to mess up reliability and do other bad things to *Lincs. My past experience with that protocol and fluorescent lighting has been poor.

Whatever you decide to buy, the units with built in 'current sensing' will mostly NOT work with fluorescent lighting. Get a relay module without current sensing.

I have no recommendation, I only wanted to 'arm' you with some added info. B)

Ken

 

[cgott4242]

Just as a FYI, I have two of the older Zwave ZIR000 PIRs controlling two Zwave Intermatic HA02 appliance modules on their own without any computer control. The only rub there is that you do need a network 'controller', (a HA09 would work) AND a way to program the PIRs, I use HS2. They both control (23w, 40w) CFLs flawlessly. Also, just FYI, you can have many independent Zwave 'networks' as long as you have one master controller (such as the HA09) for each. I am using some of the older VIZIA Zwave appliance modules with limited results (the fluorescents have a noticeable flicker when off).

I would shy away from INSTEON due to (personal experience) the fact that fluorescent lights tend to mess up reliability and do other bad things to *Lincs. My past experience with that protocol and fluorescent lighting has been poor.

Whatever you decide to buy, the units with built in 'current sensing' will mostly NOT work with fluorescent lighting. Get a relay module without current sensing.

I have no recommendation, I only wanted to 'arm' you with some added info. B)

Ken

thanks - the problem is that I need to have the appliance module controlled by the Harmony Remote (to integrate into programmed macro activities) - so with z-wave the harmony would become the controller - which is fine - nut for the fact that it won't recognize the PIR - so the PIR cant be added to the network that the appliance module is on.
re: relay module- I'm not sure what that is - does x10 have one?
thx

 

[krmiller53]

Just as a FYI, I have two of the older Zwave ZIR000 PIRs controlling two Zwave Intermatic HA02 appliance modules on their own without any computer control. The only rub there is that you do need a network 'controller', (a HA09 would work) AND a way to program the PIRs, I use HS2. They both control (23w, 40w) CFLs flawlessly. Also, just FYI, you can have many independent Zwave 'networks' as long as you have one master controller (such as the HA09) for each. I am using some of the older VIZIA Zwave appliance modules with limited results (the fluorescents have a noticeable flicker when off).

I would shy away from INSTEON due to (personal experience) the fact that fluorescent lights tend to mess up reliability and do other bad things to *Lincs. My past experience with that protocol and fluorescent lighting has been poor.

Whatever you decide to buy, the units with built in 'current sensing' will mostly NOT work with fluorescent lighting. Get a relay module without current sensing.

I have no recommendation, I only wanted to 'arm' you with some added info. B)

Ken

thanks - the problem is that I need to have the appliance module controlled by the Harmony Remote (to integrate into programmed macro activities) - so with z-wave the harmony would become the controller - which is fine - nut for the fact that it won't recognize the PIR - so the PIR cant be added to the network that the appliance module is on.
re: relay module- I'm not sure what that is - does x10 have one?
thx

As I used the term 'relay module' = 'appliance module' as in a controlled device that uses a relay to switch the power. As far as I know, most all HA protocol specific hardware, have some type of relay/appliance module. Just try to find one that does not use 'current sensing'. If it is not mentioned in the write up, then it most likely does not use current sensing. Current sensing is an added feature to detect when a controlled load is switched on via the load's local switch (even if the HA control unit has the load turned off). For most 'appliance' type loads that is just a bad idea to try with low cost electronics.
k

 

[briankelly63]

How about just old X10 with an appliance module? There is also a motion sensor for X10...

http://www.x10.com/security/ms10a_s.html

I don't think (please correct me if I'm wrong) that they have an appliance module that will not have leakage causing he flourescent bulb to blink whn eit's supposed to be off (at least that's what I heard, and what happened when I used he appliance module that I had from them

X10 AM466 3 prong appliance should not have a leakage prob. In fact they are sold on the x10 site specifically for cfl's. Appliance modules do have a function that allows the connected device to turn it on (which requires some flow) but its not enough to cause flicker... If that became a problem the local control can be disabled inside the unit.

Brian

 

[cgott4242]

X10 AM466 3 prong appliance should not have a leakage prob. In fact they are sold on the x10 site specifically for cfl's. Appliance modules do have a function that allows the connected device to turn it on (which requires some flow) but its not enough to cause flicker... If that became a problem the local control can be disabled inside the unit.

Brian

I actually have an X10 AM466 and it definitely has a leak problem- light blinks when it should be off. Have they updated the AM466 recently as mine is probably 10 years old.

 

[BLH]

Yes the old AM466 modules caused all kinds of problems with CFL bulbs. Flicker when off or trigger the Local Control and turn back on shortly after being turned off.

X10 updated the AM466 for better operation with CFL type bulbs. I have not done many tests with one; as my main controls are now Insteon. I know a CFL and the new AM466 do not flicker and turn back on with local control. There is still a very low current there to sense if the ratchet switch is on or off. An LED bulb will still glow at about half brightness on the new AM466.

The new AppliancLinc's are also much better with CFL and touchy inductive loads than the older ones. They too where redesigned.

 

[cgott4242]

Yes the old AM466 modules caused all kinds of problems with CFL bulbs. Flicker when off or trigger the Local Control and turn back on shortly after being turned off.

X10 updated the AM466 for better operation with CFL type bulbs. I have not done many tests with one; as my main controls are now Insteon. I know a CFL and the new AM466 do not flicker and turn back on with local control. There is still a very low current there to sense if the ratchet switch is on or off. An LED bulb will still glow at about half brightness on the new AM466.

The new AppliancLinc's are also much better with CFL and touchy inductive loads than the older ones. They too where redesigned.

thanks just so I'm clear before ordering.
the new AM466 will not have any flickering - i.e. I'm using this with a home theater - so I need that the light is fully off.
also don't know if it make a difference - but I'm using a 48" fluorescent bulb ("shop light") not a CFL.

Also is it worth it to buy the X10 pro over the X10 device?
thx!

 

[BLH]

I did a few quick tests with an old AM486 [two pin] Date Code 01H34 and a AM466 [three pin] Date Code 08A02. The ground pin pases through from the input pin to the outlet. No connection to the internal PCB.

Current when off. Old module 2.37 ma AC; 1.69 ma DC. New module .33 ma AC.

24" F20T12 fixture inductive ballast. Old Module pulsed and flickered then went off. New Module went off.
18" F15T8 Fixture inductive ballast. Old Module pulsed and flickered then went off. New module went off.
12" F8T5 Fixture electronic ballast. Old module pulsed and turned back on. New module went off.
I am not sure how your 48" will react but probably similar to what my tests found.

X10 vs X10Pro. Some say the X10Pro versions are tested more thoroughly than X10 versions. At one time the X10Pro line had a two year warranty and X10 a one year. I have not looked to see if it is the same now.

 

[cgott4242]

I did a few quick tests with an old AM486 [two pin] Date Code 01H34 and a AM466 [three pin] Date Code 08A02. The ground pin pases through from the input pin to the outlet. No connection to the internal PCB.

Current when off. Old module 2.37 ma AC; 1.69 ma DC. New module .33 ma AC.

24" F20T12 fixture inductive ballast. Old Module pulsed and flickered then went off. New Module went off.
18" F15T8 Fixture inductive ballast. Old Module pulsed and flickered then went off. New module went off.
12" F8T5 Fixture electronic ballast. Old module pulsed and turned back on. New module went off.
I am not sure how your 48" will react but probably similar to what my tests found.

X10 vs X10Pro. Some say the X10Pro versions are tested more thoroughly than X10 versions. At one time the X10Pro line had a two year warranty and X10 a one year. I have not looked to see if it is the same now.

thanks BLH very helpful info.
Gonna order from X10