Lighting Control

[abernut]

I know this topic has probably been beaten to death by now but I can't seem to find what I am looking for.
 
We are three weeks out from moving into our new home.  I have installed an OmniPro ii.  I've got the security side configured using PC Access.
 
I am now trying to figure out the lighting.  Right now we have standard switches.  There are many places where there are a bank of 4 or 5 switches.  Some of these are three way, single load, etc...
 
I have the UPB power line interface module and a phase coupler installed.
 
I am just not sure how to get rid of the bank of switches with something more elegant, OmniTouch 7 or 6 button keypad.
 
Here is one scenario.  I have a bank of 5 switches in the living room.  I ran two spare CAT5 cables right beside that location planning on a touchscreen at some point. From what I think I have read is that I would somehow have to relocate those switches with some type of smart switch (Simply Automated, UPB, etc...) to another less obvious place.  Then I could install the touch screen to control those switches.  
 
Any nudge in the right direction is greatly appreciated.
 
Mike

 

[pete_c]

I can't really write much other than what I have done over the years.
 
- In the midwest all of the homes here have been using metal conduit and metal boxes
- started with X10 in the late 70's until the 2000's
- I then went to using Insteon controlling the light switches via X10 (OPII panel) and Insteon (software)
- I had a heck of a time fitting two switches in one metal box
- redoing (painting and such) I did remove the single duplex mudplates and replace them with double duplex mudplates in the first few years.  Very tight; but I made it look OK
- started to migrate over to UPB a few years back.  That said went into a sort of holding pattern where only the second floor of the home was done with UPB; procrastinating left the rest of the home at Insteon/X10
- an electrical debaucle had me update the rest of the wall switches to UPB
- concurrently I didn't like that whole multi gang switch thing and reduced the footprint using dual load multi-paddle UPB switches.
- I was sort of hesitant doing this as I feared that it might be low on the WAF.  It has not been. I learned this reviewing the automation of a friend who passed away and checking out his automation and asking his wife how she used it. (well the UPB switches).
- Concurrent with this effort is another one relating to having touchscreens in every room of the house. They can do everything today; but I am still playing as its still not as fast as the in wall switch.
 
In a syopsis all I did here was collapse the footprint of the switches using different kinds of switches.

 

[fcwilt]

Yes you can try to relocate those switches to, say, a nearby closet and at the same time replace them with devices that can be controlled by the OmniPro2.
 
Just be aware that, for example, UPB devices will have a max wattage rating assuming ideal venalation. Put two devces in a two gang box and they need to be derated. Put three devices in a three gang box and they need to be derated even further.
 
As long as you adhere to the advice and instructions of the manufacture you should be OK.

 

[abernut]

It just doesn't seem very economical to relocate current switches.
What if they are part of a three-way or four-way switch.  Could I just change one leg of the circuit to control the load?

 

[MillardS]

Howdy Mike,
 
If the wiring and walls are finished it is tough job moving wires (from the fixture connection to the load controlling switch location).
 
If you can move wires, many people simply mount standard light switch junction boxes to a central location.  For example, behind a door in the laundry room or some central location that makes the wiring runs short and less costly.  A friend of mine put a dozen dual junction boxes in his laundry room (3 columns of 4 junction boxes between the three joists).  That gave him 24 load controllers in one location, without having to buy an expensive enclosure.
 
If moving the wires is not in the plan then using the dual load US22-40 can reduce wall switch clutter in half.  You can also use fixture modules (UFD or UFR) to put the load controllers in the junction box behind the light fixtures.  With the fixture modules it is best to choose the first fixture in a string of say canned lighting, so all other canned fixtures downstream can be controlled from the one fixture module.
 
Scene or multi-button/rocker controllers can help replace 3-way switch clutter.  For example if you have any 3-way switch in a dual or large junction box, it can be replaced by a button or rocker on the adjacent switch.  For example if you have two switches in a junction box and one is a three-way, replace the dual junction box with a single and then use a double rocker switch in the on position.  The second rocker can send a scene link to control the master switch in the 3-way.
 
Another option might be to follow the wiring up the wall and relocate the junction boxes a few feet higher, behind the touch screen.  There are recessed electrical boxes (REB) available that allow you to route low voltage (CAT cable) and power/switch wires to a single location.  A custom touch screen mount over the REB might be needed to allow access for connections.  Using a REB is pretty common practice when mounting flat screen TVs flush to a wall.
 
Hope that helps,
 
Millard

 

[abernut]

Millard,
Thank you for the response.  That sort of clears things up.
On 3-way and 4-way circuits, do I need use a UPB switch for each switch in the circuit.
 
I like those dual load US22-40.  Do they make anything that can be labeled?  
 
Thanks,
Mike

 

[fcwilt]

For 3 and 4 way you have two approaches.
 
One is to use the dedicated remote devices which simply control the actual dimmer device - this is the cheapest approach.
 
The other approach is to use a scene contoller device (or a dimmer device with no load) to send a UPB command to the actual dimmer device - this is the most flexible approach but more expensive.
 
 
The dual units have their place just watch the wattage ratings and derating requirements.

 

[pete_c]

Yup; here went to capping the traveler wires and using regular UPB switches and links to primary switches with a load.
 
I use a few of the high wattage switches.  These have some sort of heat sink cover.  They do not really get that warm comparing them to the older high amperage Insteon / X-10 stuff.
 
Wife has learned the multitoggle/multipaddle switches better than myself.
 
I have seen labels for the "button" style switches or combo paddle / button switch. 
 
They are sold as inserts or just labels on buttons.  I had a couple of these installed a while ago and went to the multipaddle switches with no labels when I updated a couple of years ago.
 
What I like is the flexibility in the programming of each of switches.  With Upstart you can talk to the switches like each of them are little computers.  I have not seen this with Insteon or Z-Wave devices.
 

 

 

[fcwilt]

It just doesn't seem very economical to relocate current switches.
What if they are part of a three-way or four-way switch.  Could I just change one leg of the circuit to control the load?

 
Well you said you wanted to get rid of the banks of swtiches - so seems to me that means you have to move them.
 
What does "change one leg" mean to you?

 

[abernut]

What does "change one leg" mean to you?

 
One switch on the circuit.
Meaning that if it is a 3 or 4 way circuit can I just change one of the switches to a switch addressable by my OmniPro ii, and does it matter what switch.  Or does every switch on that circuit need to be replaced.
 

 

[fcwilt]

The technologies are not compatible - all of the swtiches need to be changed out - using one of the two approaches I mentioned.