Looking for assistance on first automation project

[twilo123]

i use z-wave for numerous objects in my home and must say that i enjoy the technology and think it is a great fit for retrofit homes. if hardwire is an issue and you don't mind the RF then i believe it is a viable option for HA and even security as it evolves.

let's face it z-wave is an up and comer with some serious implications for the home automation market. it is in it's infancy but there are already hundreds of products and manufacturers pushing this product along. i for one would definitely look for having it as a platform for everything and i see it moving in that direction. give this product another 10-15 years like some of the competing ha products/protocols on the market and you may be surprise to learn what it can do.

shenandoah75, your right i don't need a z-wave garage door opener but then again i don't really need a garage door opener period. it's a matter of convenience and efficiency. is it nice to be able to turn on my lights as i come up to my home sure just like it is nice to be able to just open the garage to pull my car in without having to get out and physically open the door.

there are already z-wave appliance modules coming out that you don't necessarily need a full blown pc to operate various functions of a home. for instance i use a hawking z-wave appliance to assist controlling various z-wave products. i don't use any pc for scenes or z-wave product control. i use the hawking box for timed/scene events as well as internet remote access. i use their cell link service for cell phone access/control including live motion jpg video in my home on my cell phone. i use handheld remotes to control all of the products internally in my home and finally i use the wall controllers for control in various parts of my home. leviton and wayne dalton are both coming out with internet/in home appliances soon also.

i can personally attest to the z-wave thermostats and it is great that i don't have to run any extra wiring through walls on each thermostat or zone. i control my thermostat on a time schedule, via the internet, with a handheld remote, and my cell phone as needed. i can't recommend it enough. in my case i use a rcs tz40 and love it. i schedule my heating for my normal routine. i change the heat from my bed at night without having to get up and go downstairs to the thermostat. if my schedule changes that day i log in from my pc at work to change it or better yet i just change it while i am on the road in my car with my cell phone. for me this is a great feature set.

if i want to include security i can use the elk line. if i want audio/video i can use various product lines such as lifeware or fiire.

let's face it z-wave is here to stay and will only improve as time goes on.

two-way communication is already built into z-wave. that was one of the main purposes in it's design, to include two way communication. manufacturers will include better two way designs as they develop newer and better products. whether through polling or instant status updates, z-wave already has the functionality built in.

z-wave security - z-wave motion sensors are already out which have multiple options in them (light, temperature, motion, events, etc.). i have seen door sensor prototypes which will probably be on the market soon also. wifi/ethernet video cameras are already included in the hybrid system from hawking. i can watch live video over the internet or even on my cell phone. i can use the built in motion sensor to take snapshots and text message or email me the pics. i can record video to a pc as a dvr if i want. z-wave smoke detectors are supposedly in development. just need some glass breaks and you can have a homebrew security system based on z-wave. full z-wave security is just a matter of time. many alarms systems already try to include wireless sensors based on various technologies, i am sure z-wave is next on the list.

just my opinion but i have to admit that i for one believe z-wave will be a serious contender for HA and even security as it evolves.

 

[shenandoah75]

fair enough esp on the thermostat... i guess i looked at hardwire as only being an issue in electrical upgrades... To me, i'm not tearing up walls to retrofit hardwire lighting the the wireless aspect of zwave/vizia there to me is/was a no brainer. Everything else i've been fortunate enough to have fairly easy access to - i can get to the top plates/etc in the attic and don't mind drilling/fishing. I was also fortunate enough to have bought a home with security system and all window/door contacts installed.

I'm still iffy on security and i think that if possible hardwire is always more reliable/secure (be it ethernet, security, HA, etc). If your going to put in an Elk/Hai/etc, i think hardwire has its place. But i liked your feedback and maybe zwave is further along than i thought... So your remote talks directly on the zwave protocol? that sounds slick and maybe i need to think about upgrading my sony rm commander (the lighting alone would be nice and i wouldn't have to use the global cache - still uninstalled)

-brad

 

[MikeB]

That's true, point well taken, but the way I read the future desire, I'd be concerned about the following. This may not be the OPs concerns, so how he feels may be different.
1) Wasting my time on something that would be ripped out later. Life is hard & busy enough to not worry about learning something that has a limited shelf-life.
2) Going with a protocol that won't be robust enough for the future also has the risk of damaging WAF beyond repair, and abandoning the project entirely b/c of a first decision that could lead me to believe that the target future state may not be attainable.

Good points, ones that I learned long ago with tools.

Sometimes saving money today means spending a long more money on the long-run. Why buy a $50 drill today to save some money, when you'll end up buying a $150 drill 1.5 years later after your $50 died or you outgrew it? Makes more sense to buy the $150 drill right off the bat, or maybe a $100 drill.

X10 might save you money and work OK now, but if you have a bigger vision replacing those switches later will cost you lots of time and money. Better to go with something more robust now, and add on later in my opinion.

I would like to start very small and satisfy an immediate desire. The first project is simple; I would like to be able to control the lights in the family room where my entertainment equipment is. I have 2 sets of high hats, and two table lamps. I want to control them with my Harmony 880 (IR) remote, preferably via the hidden IR system I use to control the components in the cabinet.

If you're considering Insteon, Universal-Devices will be releasing their ISY-99.9 shortly which will allow full IR control over Insteon lighting. This isn't a cheap way to start, but will easily grow with you as the ISY-99.9 is a full Insteon automation controller, device programmer, etc.. You wouldn't need to leave a PC on to run triggers, events, etc.

 

[twilo123]

brad,

i definitely agree that hardwire is the best way to go if it is a viable option. if it is not, all i would say is that z-wave in my experience is a good alternative for various HA/security initiatives. it's kind of like using sonos for audio distribution as oppossed to running speaker wire all over the home. it serves a specific purpose for a portion of the market.

for z-wave remotes this is what i currently use. i defiinitely have to admit that this product is again in its infancy and am looking for a good all in one remote for z-wave/audio/video.

1. hawking homeremote appliance box. uses something like 7watts of power. hooks up to your router via ethernet for intranet/internet web page access. had a z-wave rf chip built in. also integrates their video camera (very crude but it works). use it for scheduling heat/ac, lighting, plugin heater/ac, etc. i control my rcs tz40 off of this box.
2. optional cell link service - about $8 a month - gives you remote access/control of the hawking box and your z-wave devices along with video feeds
3. act zth100 handheld remote for thermostat control - as far as i know this is the only handheld remote that fully implements the thermostat command class for z-wave. the remote is a dinosaur and has a horrible UI IMO but it does the job. can be used for lighting and all other z-wave products also. i also use it to set an association on a motion sensor to turn on/off screw in lamp modules in my basement and laundry room
4. intermatic handheld - used for lighting, appliance power control. simple remote which is easy to use and understand. good to turn on/off/dim lights. shut off all lights at once from my bed. turn on/off a wall air conditioner unit, a plugin heater, fan, etc.
5. in wall controllers - for scene/zone control. i shut off all my lights from 1 button when i walk out of the house. i control all lights, outside lights, my living room light, and a lamp from a single gang box.
6. garage door conversion kit - open my garage door and turn on my outside lights, garage lights, foyer, and kitchen lights from my car. once i get to the kitchen i hit another button and shut off all of the lights except the kitchen. saves me time and effort.

i don't use a pc except if i want to record dvr video from the video camera. if i just want, i use the built in motion sensor with sms or email jpeg alerts without having to use a pc.

my biggest complaints so far - serious lack of thermostat support in handheld remotes. everyone is putting remotes on the market and all they control are basically lighting and plug in modules. this and they want to charge $100-200 for a remote. the zth100 is $50 and does pretty much the same as the high end remotes but also controls thermostats. it just needs a better UI. it is not intuitive and can be annoying at times. the labelling is digital and the lcd is not backlit. hard to read in the dark, actually pretty impossible to read in the dark. the buttons are single for on/off. i don't like this style so far. i am not sure if i am turning some on or off in another room. on the two button on/off remotes like the intermatic handheld i know if i hit the left button i am turning something on, if i hit the right button i turn it off. i have actual green/red lights for confirmation. on the zth100 i have to hit 1 button and then turn the light on to see what it says on the lcd to see if i am turning something on or off and confirmation. it's really annoying for me, especially since it is not backlit. the leviton remote is pretty good but again it is pricey (about $150) and doesn't even fully support a thermostat like the $50 act remote does. why should i pay 3x the money for something missing such a crucial piece to a HA system. if i just want to do lights/modules i can use the intermatic remote for $40. the only reason i bought this remote was to program their in wall zone controller so they try to lock you in to buying their remote. it's sad that they feel the need to resort to this in order to sell a remote. of course they will probably beg to differ but that is my opinion. and i think i will seriously laugh at the new cooper remotes. they are the priciest and don't even do thermostats either. the tabletop can be mounted to the wall but it is just a screw in so you can't remove it from the wall when you want to take it with you. they should use a slider so you can mount it on the wall and take it out when you want. it looks like it is all plastic anyways so it is cheap to do something like this.

the harmony 100 and 890 had the best promise so far. they would have been a true HA & home theater/entertainment solution with a decent UI. i wish they would have fully supported the z-wave protocol and command classes. it would have been the best of both worlds. now neither support z-wave anymore.

the nevo line looks promising but doesn't even support z-wave other than routing messages at this point. i will wait to see if it fully supports z-wave or is just a z-wave light remote like most of the others on the market. the remote is pricey to boot so i would be even more disappointed if this remote doesn't fully support z-wave!

i haven't tried the monster remote but would enjoy hearing some reviews on it. again, looking for at least full thermostat support beyond the typical z-wave lighting support (more than basic command class).

like i mentioned earlier z-wave has great promise IMO but is still in its infancy. while the typical claim is if it has a z-wave logo on the unit they all talk to each other and everything works seamlessly, i don't find this is totally true. each manufacturer is trying to add their own flavor to the protocol and as a result you have a mishmash of products that on a basic level work together however for what you bought it for it will have problems working. each manufacturer is trying to set the bar and differentiate themselves on the market thereby trying to lock you into their product which is kind of against the whole point of z-wave as a collaborative protocol. again this is just my experience and opinion from using this product so far. on the other side, i ran into this product about a year ago and have been using it since. i totally believe this product has great promise if you don't have issues with RF and look forward to seeing what comes next.

finally, i am thinking about creating a site with video reviews of various z-wave products along with their functionality so people aren't caught up in the confusing trap i went through to find out what places nicely with what, etc. i would hate for other people to spend thousands like i did to find out what works best and how to make this whole z-wave thing a great all in one solution for things like HA, audio/video, and security. if people are interested in something like this i will see what i can do. there are so many products/software/hardware out there now that it can get confusing and frustrating to get a solid solution. for instance i wound up buying 5 different manfucturer product lighting lines just to find out which ones working best for me. the functionality, feel, and even wiring are different on these. why should everyone go through this just to get a decent z-wave lighting solution?

~ Rob

 

[rykman]

I would like to thank everyone for the help and guidance. Your knowledge and viewpoints are invaluable to someone who is just entering this and trying to figure out the best approach. I probably would have made some short term mistakes, I am reconsidering some of my assumptions I had started with.
One thing for sure this is not simple, and as with any thing concerning technology it takes careful planning and forethought.
Anyone else with any opinions or thought please post them.

 

[Spanky]

twilo123,
Concerning your comment on Zwave and security, all security devices must have battery backup including the routers or repeaters in which their message could be sent through in case of power failure. There must be a way to enroll a security device so that it will only use battery backed up repeaters. This is one reason the security market has been slow to adopt Zwave into the security arena. This also applies to Zigbee systems, but Zigbee has a way of defining a battery backed up device. I am sure as Zwave advances, a solution will be offered so that lighting and security can operate on the same channel.