Looking to get ELK for Security to use alongside Indigo/Insteon Automation

[dabido]

Hi folks. Learning some really great stuff here from others' posts, but an admin recommended I post about my own situation as well.
 
I'm currently running an Insteon system in my apartment, using Indigo 5 Pro from perceptive automation to run the show. I've invested quite a lot of time (and $) in programming the system, so I'd like to leverage the existing hardware and software in our new house that is being constructed. Currently I have a PLM connected via USB to my mac mini server. I have some RF door and motion sensors, and a bunch of light switches.
 
I have some questions so that I can better understand what will be involved when I'm setting up this security portion of the system:
 
We are currently shopping around for a security system, and I'm looking primarily at the ELK M1EZ8KB (8 on board zones, no telephone/voice features.) The new house is a city row-home with two ground level doors, approx 10-12 windows, and a roof-deck access door.
Is the M1EZ8KB enough for my needs? Are there any reasons why I would consider upgrading to the M1GSYS4S or M1? Can it handle smoke detectors?
 
It is my understanding that the M1EZ8KB has a built-in ethernet port on-board for programming via a computer.
Is the ELK system just connected via ethernet to my network switch? And the panel appears on my local network?
 
Indigo users have written Elk plugins to communicate with the Elk panel. I've read that you can use Indigo to arm/disarm among other things. 
How does Indigo communicate with the Elk panel? Do I just tell the Indigo plugin the IP address of the Elk, and that's it?
 
I will probably be using the Elk only to monitor security of windows/doors and to sound alarms/flash strobes. Indigo will be handling the majority of the automation aspects (lights, texting/emailing, house audio)
Do I have to get the Windows Elk management software if I'm only using Elk for the most basic security features? (ie no or limited automation)  Is there any browser-based management of the Elk panel? Or is the Windows Elk software the only GUI interface available?
 
I would like Indigo to handle the alerts, as this is what I'm used to programming. I don't have plans to have a landline at the new house, so I won't be using the Elk's dialer capabilities (I don't think, at this time.)
Does the Elk communicate with Indigo in the event of alarms? Would I be able to set up Indigo to alert me and trigger Insteon actions as a result of the alarm being tripped?
 
Our plan is to have wall-mounted iPads to control Indigo's control pages, which will have access to lights, music, and Elk's arm/disarm/status. 
What can you tell me about eKeypad and the like? Are there major advantages over just using Indigo Touch's control pages?
Do I need physical Elk keypads accessible at the doors? Or can Indigo's plugins control arm/disarm reliably enough?
 
 
What do I have to tell my contractor/electrician about pre-wiring for the Elk? 
Is it okay to daisychain/parallel the window sensor wiring or should I be homerun-ing each one? Might fill up the on-board 8 zones too quickly...
What has to be run for keypads locations?
 
 
*I'm planning an A/V-HA closet in the basement to house all 'house brains,' so the Elk system will presumably be mounted into my rack or wall of the closet.
 
 
Shopping list so far:
ELK M1EZ8KB Kit
ELK Outdoor stainless steel siren
ELK Red strobe light
 
 
Thank you all so much in advance for taking the time to help me out.

 

[electron]

wow, many questions (opening up a duplicate tab on my 2nd screen so I can keep track )

• Is the M1EZ8KB enough for my needs? Are there any reasons why I would consider upgrading to the M1GSYS4S or M1? Can it handle smoke detectors?
  Only you will be able to answer this question.  Check out this thread, and this comparison link on the ELK website to figure out if the EZ8 will do the job.  The big ones are the # of inputs, no voice announcements on the EZ8, and the onboard serial port.  Everything else is not as big of a deal.
• It is my understanding that the M1EZ8KB has a built-in ethernet port on-board for programming via a computer.
  Incorrect, the M1EZ8 requires a serial port module (M1EZ8MSI) just to get the main serial port accessible, then you need the M1XEP Ethernet interface in order to convert this serial port to an Ethernet port.  Once you do this, your ELK will be accessible by any app/controller supporting ELK IP access.
• How does Indigo communicate with the Elk panel? Do I just tell the Indigo plugin the IP address of the Elk, and that's it?
  Most drivers work this way, but without a screenshot of the ELK driver, it's hard to tell.  The ELK protocol is extremely simple (but powerful), so it's very easy to implement.
• Do I have to get the Windows Elk management software if I'm only using Elk for the most basic security features? (ie no or limited automation) Is there any browser-based management of the Elk panel? Or is the Windows Elk software the only GUI interface available?
  The software is called ElkRP, and yes, you will need it to configure your system.  Once it's configured, you will probably rare, if ever (based on your comments), need it (just for upgrades and changes you want to make to sensors).  I recommend you install a dedicated VM to do this, if you don't want to pay for a Windows license, then maybe you can get away with just installing a trial version of the Windows operating system.  That said, in theory, many aspects of the ELK are also configurable via the keypads, but I think configuring the M1XEP is going to be impossible (never tried it).
• Does the Elk communicate with Indigo in the event of alarms? Would I be able to set up Indigo to alert me and trigger Insteon actions as a result of the alarm being tripped?
  If the driver supports it, then yes.  The ELK M1 protocol will report alarms, zone changes, etc (assuming you didn't disable this), so it's all up to the driver to support this.
• What can you tell me about eKeypad and the like? Are there major advantages over just using Indigo Touch's control pages? Do I need physical Elk keypads accessible at the doors? Or can Indigo's plugins control arm/disarm reliably enough?
  Since you aren't using the ELK to manage your lighting, eKeypad is probably not going to be enough.  Of course, you could create virtual outputs or tasks in the ELK configuration, which Indigo can monitor (and react upon), so this would get around that limitation.  eKeypad is really nice, and one of the better ELK iOS apps available.  Don't forget to check out the list of many many iPad mounts, there are some really cool mounts out there (with induction charging, magnetic mounting, etc.)
• What do I have to tell my contractor/electrician about pre-wiring for the Elk? Is it okay to daisychain/parallel the window sensor wiring or should I be homerun-ing each one? Might fill up the on-board 8 zones too quickly...
  Pre-wiring is simple, same setup as other alarm systems.  Keypads require Cat5 or better.  I personally homerun every sensor, and combine them at the panel if I don't have enough outputs (this allows me to change the configuration later, in case I obtain more inputs.  Since you are thinking about getting an EZ8, I would definitely use this approach, as you might upgrade to a M1G, which offers more inputs.
• What has to be run for keypads locations?
  Cat5 or better should do the job.
• Shopping list so far: ELK M1EZ8KB Kit ELK Outdoor stainless steel siren ELK Red strobe light
  Unless I am mistaken, that kit does not include the M1EZ8MSI and the M1XEP, so you will need those as well.

 

[jaymartin]

For the questions about the Elk plugin and Indigo, I'd suggest posting on the plugin's thread created by the plugin developer over on our forums - the developer or one of the other users of the plugin should be able to answer those questions more fully.

 

[dabido]

Dan- thank you again for taking the time to answer my questions. I appreciate the information..now I just have to let it all simmer and see what I want to move forward with.
 
I misunderstood the pricing on one site and thought the M1 was $1,000 vs $500 for the EZ8; I'm now seeing them elsewhere at ~$500 vs ~$300.
 
I'm going to do some digging in the cocoon vendor alliance, as you suggested. (Also have to keep an eye on Elk's own authorized resellers--their site says the warranty is void if purchased through a number of outlets..that feels disconcerting.)

 

[electron]

All of the Alliance members are authorized dealers.  Mention you found them via CocoonTech, and you might get a price break (used to be that way with Automated Outlet).  They can do this because ELK doesn't allow them to advertise cheaper pricing, but if you deal with them over the phone, they can do better