M1 configurations for multiple sirens / strobes

[AnotherOne]

Next question (I figured seperate posts was better).

If I want to have 3 sirens, 2 voice speakers, and 2 strobe lights what additional modules do I need (the stobes and sirens would be Elk models).

Also, do the keypads give me speaker or siren capability - and if so how loud are they?

 

[Steve]

Short answer is speakers go on Output1 and you can't go less than 4 ohms so if you have several then they need to be wired in series/parallel to keep it between 4-8 ohms. If you only have 2 you should be fine. Sirens go on Output2 and can be voltage sirens or speaker type that require a siren driver which is built in M1. Personally I prefer the voltage sirens. Danger is if you have multiple sirens that pull like 1A when going off, that would put M1 in overload condition during alarm. Strobe also needs voltage Output and several folks put them on Output3. M1 can not really deliver more than 2.5A during alarm. You would have to add an additional power supply. The piezo sirens draw very little current and are VERY loud. The keypads just beep during alarm, sounds similar to normal beeps.

 

[Spanky]

The keypads beep during alarm. We have just received the speakers to fit behind the M1KP2 keypad. Part number ELK-SP102, 8 ohm, 10 Watt, derated. These can be connected to Output 1 for Siren/Voice operation or to Output 2 for Siren only operation

The ELK-SP102 speaker is a custom designed speaker replacing the Peerless speaker which is no longer available, but we designed the plastic to fit it.

 

[wuench]

Assuming something like the piezo sirens, would multiple be wired in series, parallel or both in the same fashion as the speakers?

 

[Steve]

I think since they are just voltage based they would wire fine in parallel. I'll find out this weekend!

 

[Digger]

You need to set the output to voltage setting and wire in parallel and not exceed the current rating of the M1 output in alarm which I beleive is 1 A. You can put a lot of piezo sirens on that output depending ont the rating (some are as low as 50 ma)

Be careful with the piezo's I was experimenting with some at work today and even with hearing protection they were loud. Its very easy to damage your hearing if you are not careful. Up close I was getting over 100 dB which can damage your hearing very quickly. At 10 feet I was getting about 89 dB. A commercial fire siren is only required to have 75 dB at 10 feet.

 

[DeathtoToasters]

The keypads beep during alarm. We have just received the speakers to fit behind the M1KP2 keypad. Part number ELK-SP102, 8 ohm, 10 Watt, derated. These can be connected to Output 1 for Siren/Voice operation or to Output 2 for Siren only operation

The ELK-SP102 speaker is a custom designed speaker replacing the Peerless speaker which is no longer available, but we designed the plastic to fit it.

and we can get these speakers where.....

 

[Steve]

and not exceed the current rating of the M1 output in alarm which I beleive is 1 A.

I thought max current draw in alarm was 2.5A?

 

[Digger]

Thats standby and alarm current combined. Max alarm current is 1 A (siren circuit etc). then again that may be the UL rating. Check the manual.

Either way you can put a lot of piezo's.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Look at my first post in THIS thread for some piezo information. I use them because I want it to "hurt" when they go off. <_<

For my friend's house we used an additional 12 volt Elk battery backed supply and an Elk "fused" power distribution module for the strobes.

We will use that supply for future components also such as cameras.

I wrote some rules for the strobe so it will only go off after a disarm (and not a siren timeout). This article is in the Elk "Tips and Tricks" section on their site. I used an output (such as M16) and a sensitive relay to "switch" the external power supply to the strobes.

I'm in a hurry and doing all this from memory (i.e. scary) so let me know if this doesn't make much sense or if you need additional info later on.

 

[Steve]

Thats standby and alarm current combined. Max alarm current is 1 A (siren circuit etc). then again that may be the UL rating. Check the manual.

Either way you can put a lot of piezo's.

The manual says

1. For UL installations, total continuous 'standby'
current drain from terminals +SAUX, +VAUX,
+VKP, and J16 is 1 Amp (2.5Amp in alarm).
Observe UL Residential Burg and Residential
Fire limitations as stated in manual.
2. OUT 1 †† for speaker(s) ONLY (4 to 8 Ohms).
If connecting more than 2, use series/parallel
wiring to avoid going below a 4 ohm total load.
OUT 2 Connect ONLY 1 UL Listed Bell or
Siren (self-contained). Current limited to 1 Amp.
Program Global Option 26 to Voltage. This
output supervised. Speaker(s) only permitted
for non-UL installations. Series/parallel wire to
avoid dropping below a 4 ohm total load.

I guess you are right about the separate siren circuit. But what doesn't make sense to me then is Elks own sirens like the Elk-45 or SS30 technically can not be used on the M1 because they draw 1.1 or 1.2A. The Elk-45 can be configured to millimiser I guess to draw only 700ma. It also says connect ONLY 1. Why couldn't I parallel connect say 1 Elk-45 in millimiser mode plus 2 piezo screamers if current would be < 1A? Or what if I eliminated the Elk45 entirely and only uses piezo screamers including for the outdoor siren - 3 or 4 of those would certainly be < 1A.

 

[rfdesq]

What would be the best way to wire two ELK-45's using a separate power supply/battery? My concern is the supervised output 2.

 

[Digger]

Steve,

If you parallel more than one siren and you lose one the panel will not know it since one siren alone provides enough of a small current draw for supervision. Its that way with almost anyone's alarm panel and is not unique to the M1. UL and the NFPA requires that each siren be supervised so you can have only one to maintain the UL Listing.

I myself have two sirens. I might add a piezo as well.

 

[Steve]

That makes sense but then I would have the same question as rfdesq. I imagine the piezo or other siren could simply be hooked up to another output or relay board with rules such as WHENEVER any alarm THEN TURN ON Output X, etc. I guess for piezos you could pull power from Vaux but for another siren I guess you need to pull from another power source.

 

[rfdesq]

I learned the hard way that the voltage output from Output 2 is not the same as the other voltage outputs. I could test an ELK relay and see if the supervision current is too much and trips the relay. I do want to pass the signal through from Output 2 to the sirens because of the changes in sounds.