Monitoring Options for COMMERCIAL Fire system

[sic0048]

Our Church is is installing a commercial fire system and security system. We have gotten several quotes and some include the monitoring service and some are for the installation only. I'd like to get some feedback on commercial fire system monitoring options. I know both NextAlarm and AlarmRelay offer commercial monitoring, but that is it.

Does anyone have first hand experience with monitoring of commercial fire and security? Any suggestions or recommendations?

Thanks!

 

[russban]

Is your local Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ, usually the fire marshall or inspector) requiring that your system follow the strict UL rules for fire installation and monitoring? If so, I would recommend that you choose a reputable installer that has a strong working relationship with a UL monitoring company. A UL fire alarm system has numerous and strict rules for design, installation, inspections and maintenance, including response times for troubles, etc. A reputable company with a good relationship with it's UL monitoring service can save you a lot of time and grief dealing with system problems and the AHJ, which is worth far more than the money you may save by bringing in a 3rd party monitoring service.

 

[personalt]

Is your local Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ, usually the fire marshall or inspector) requiring that your system follow the strict UL rules for fire installation and monitoring? If so, I would recommend that you choose a reputable installer that has a strong working relationship with a UL monitoring company. A UL fire alarm system has numerous and strict rules for design, installation, inspections and maintenance, including response times for troubles, etc. A reputable company with a good relationship with it's UL monitoring service can save you a lot of time and grief dealing with system problems and the AHJ, which is worth far more than the money you may save by bringing in a 3rd party monitoring service.

I agree with above... by me we also need to get the unit serviced annually. mostly they walk around and spray fake smoke into the detectors to test. I also found that in my case they discounted the hardware a lot if I got monitoring from them..

 

[pete_c]

Where I worked a couple of years ago we used ADT to monitor alarm.

I was not impressed when I called to disable monitoring for both testing and inspections. Tested / inspected systems 4 times in about 1 year.

Of the 4 times I tested system ADT messed up once resulting in police / fire trucks to facility. It seemed related to communications issues with customer service.

This was a facility with two buildings / about 1500 folks.

The resulting poor customer service actually dinged my testing of a new Tyco panel / software / etc.

We also had the fire alarm panel and sprinkler system inspected every year by a local alarm company at a modest rate. The local alarm company customer service actually convinced me to test the Tyco provided panels / software for security.

 

[Digger]

Our Church is is installing a commercial fire system and security system. We have gotten several quotes and some include the monitoring service and some are for the installation only. I'd like to get some feedback on commercial fire system monitoring options. I know both NextAlarm and AlarmRelay offer commercial monitoring, but that is it.

Does anyone have first hand experience with monitoring of commercial fire and security? Any suggestions or recommendations?

Thanks!

Are they installing a combination Commercial Fire/Burglar system or two separate systems? The reason I ask is that there are very few combination systems that meet the current UL and NFPA standards for Commercial Fire and also meet the Commercial Burglar requirements. There are some dealers still selling systems that meet the older requirements but I would recommend that the church verify with the AHJ that they will accept that (some definitely will but some will not and it could be costly mistake).

Do you happen to know which brand/model they are planning on installing?

For the record the company I work for is just finishing our UL Listing on our Combination Commercial Fire/Burglar system for the latest requirements and there are only a few out there that already meet them. There is nothing wrong with the competitors panels and I am not trying to plug the company I work for.

One little known fact......... the NFPA requires a Telco line for the primary reporting on a Commercial Fire Alarm if there is a telco line(TCP/IP or GSM can be backup). Some mfg's panels do not do well on VOIP etc and some Central Stations do not allow reporting on VOIP lines. So many installers are using TCP/IP or GSM Radio (Cell) if there are no traditional POTS lines. That can add to your monthly costs.

 

[pete_c]

Personally I reviewed and documented physical location of panels and had local alarm company detail logical connections (fire, access card, burgular, etc). I had alarm company update their existing documentation for location. I redocumented processes and procedures should a "problem" occur.

I also reviewed said topology with the fire marshall from town.

 

[sic0048]

Are they installing a combination Commercial Fire/Burglar system or two separate systems? The reason I ask is that there are very few combination systems that meet the current UL and NFPA standards for Commercial Fire and also meet the Commercial Burglar requirements. There are some dealers still selling systems that meet the older requirements but I would recommend that the church verify with the AHJ that they will accept that (some definitely will but some will not and it could be costly mistake).

Do you happen to know which brand/model they are planning on installing?

I'm not really involved with the solicitation of the bids or speaking directly with the bidders, but I do have a copy of the bid. It appears to be a Honeywell unit, but what is listed in the bid is "V128FBP-9 CONTROL FIRE/BURG COMMERCIAL"

I believe we do have POTS lines coming into the church. It's my understanding that we have to have two monitored lines - one could be cellular.

Anyway, I know the people involved have walked around with the persective companies and the fire marshall, so I think everyone is on the same page as far as local requirements. At least I hope they are. :nutz:

I believe the job is going to a company that doesn't provide monitoring themselves. As long as we can get with a decent monitoring company and meet all the local requirements, I think that is a better solution than being tied into another provider for the next 5 years.

 

[Digger]

Are they installing a combination Commercial Fire/Burglar system or two separate systems? The reason I ask is that there are very few combination systems that meet the current UL and NFPA standards for Commercial Fire and also meet the Commercial Burglar requirements. There are some dealers still selling systems that meet the older requirements but I would recommend that the church verify with the AHJ that they will accept that (some definitely will but some will not and it could be costly mistake).

Do you happen to know which brand/model they are planning on installing?

I'm not really involved with the solicitation of the bids or speaking directly with the bidders, but I do have a copy of the bid. It appears to be a Honeywell unit, but what is listed in the bid is "V128FBP-9 CONTROL FIRE/BURG COMMERCIAL"

I believe we do have POTS lines coming into the church. It's my understanding that we have to have two monitored lines - one could be cellular.

Anyway, I know the people involved have walked around with the persective companies and the fire marshall, so I think everyone is on the same page as far as local requirements. At least I hope they are. :nutz:

I believe the job is going to a company that doesn't provide monitoring themselves. As long as we can get with a decent monitoring company and meet all the local requirements, I think that is a better solution than being tied into another provider for the next 5 years.

Yes you need two lines for communication. POTS being primary in your case and POTS or cell as backup is probably the way to go. Honeywell does have a very good TCP/IP setup if the central station you choose supports it (and you have Broadband internet on premise).

The Vista 128FBP-9 is a good panel. Its actually the panel my company is directly competing against. It is very similar to the older version that has been around for about 10 years or so.

I agree paying an independent installer is probably in your best interests.

Does the spec call out for water sensors and CO detectors? In my opinion both are important in a public building such as a church that is not always occupied (for the water damage) and that is occupied (for the CO).

 

[sic0048]

Does the spec call out for water sensors and CO detectors? In my opinion both are important in a public building such as a church that is not always occupied (for the water damage) and that is occupied (for the CO).

Actually I think it is just for smokes, heat detectors, and the HVAC duct sensors. CO2 sensors and water sensors are actually a good idea. We actually have a school (pre school through 12th grade) at the church and we are having to install the system in one of the buildings due to the preschool program. So the facility is occupied much more than a typical church would be. But those are still good things to think about.

 

[pete_c]

Personally evalued 3 commercial systems offerings in three different buildings (1500-2500 users). A fourth system was included but not evaluated. My personal favorite was what Tyco offered. Honeywell's offerings were still under development (saw some nice presentations) so what they gave me to test with not their most recent offerings. The third system was impressive and included in the testing but the resources I utilized had no clue about the system and when I asked questions relating to the software and its problems the main corporate support was lacking.