monitoring temperature of Elk can

aehusted

Active Member
I am rearranging my wiring a bit as part of some basement renovations and I am wondering at what point should I think about actively cooling my can? It is a 42" leviton that is flush mounted with the M1G, XEP and GigE switch inside. There will perhaps be some other additions down the line and after reading a bit about the low end switches out there, I am getting a bit worried about the heat. I would rather not exacerbate what seems like an endemic capacitor problem(with switches) by letting the box get too hot, but with another baby on the way I do not want to break the bank either.

What is the easiest way to monitor the temp inside the can? Can I simply add a thermistor of some sort to an analog zone on the M1 with minimal tinkering?

Thanks!
 
If you really wanted to monitor the temperature in your Elk can, I would just install an Elk temperature sensor.

If that's all you have in that can though, you should be fine. The Elk doesn't generate much heat.
 
Thanks Martin. I am mostly worried about the heat from the gigabit ethernet switch. From reading reviews, it seems like a lot of the desktop 8 port models have problems with heat and capacitor quality. I suppose if it fizzles it will not hurt anything else in the can so I guess I will just give it a try.

If that's all you have in that can though, you should be fine. The Elk doesn't generate much heat.
 
what about just using something like this or something similar from Digikey?


If you really wanted to monitor the temperature in your Elk can, I would just install an Elk temperature sensor.

If that's all you have in that can though, you should be fine. The Elk doesn't generate much heat.
 
what about just using something like this or something similar from Digikey?

This is the LM34DZ, available from most parts suppliers for $2.50 (or less, e.g. Jameco, $1.99 single quantity price)

Why are Elk owners not using this instead of more expensive 1-wire networks or Elk sensors?

The short answer is that you need some interfacing between this sensor and the Elk zone. For many Elk owners, the Elk temperature sensing unit is a turnkey solution that is worth the price.
 
What is the long answer?

The Elk zones are designed to supply current, specifically 13+V through a 2.2K ohm resistor, to open/close contacts and/or attached resistance. The zones measure the resultant voltage across the zone and convert the voltage measurement to a digital value 0-255.

The principal challenge you face when connecting active elements to a zone is this supplied zone voltage. You need a low-impedance voltage source as a start, then you have to deal with the problem (usually) of non-linear behavior, and if you want to take advantage of the full 256-step range, you need to scale the output of your interface to the full zone voltage range (14V measured, according to Spanky). So your task is to to design an interface particular to the specifications of the device you are attaching, with these output characteristics.

Alternatively, you can cut the pull-up resistor for the zone, which is risky and has warranty implications, but which then simplifies the interfacing problem to one of voltage scaling.

Once you have a nice functioning linear full-scale zone input, you have to convert the 0-255 digital value to something useful, like actual temperature, humidity, pressure, distance, whatever. Let's just say that the Elk does not excel at math.

The Elk temperature sensors actually do not even use the analog zone characteristics, they use a serial protocol (again according to Spanky) which is implemented only on the main board zones 1-16. You *could* in principle design an interface for the LM34 which would implement this protocol, and then use zone definition 33 as intended. But you would simply exchange the above complexity for complexity of a different kind.

BSR and others have done considerable investigation of this situation over 2-3 years, including not incidentally analog interfacing the LM34, with mixed results. For my part, time is too valuable and there are plentiful alternatives. I use other devices for analog measurements, and use the M1 in those many situations where it functions best.
 
I see.
I guess that about wraps up the question for me.
Thanks.

The Elk zones are designed to supply current, specifically 13+V through a 2.2K ohm resistor, to open/close contacts and/or attached resistance. The zones measure the resultant voltage across the zone and convert the voltage measurement to a digital value 0-255.

The principal challenge you face when connecting active elements to a zone is this supplied zone voltage. You need a low-impedance voltage source as a start, then you have to deal with the problem (usually) of non-linear behavior, and if you want to take advantage of the full 256-step range, you need to scale the output of your interface to the full zone voltage range (14V measured, according to Spanky). So your task is to to design an interface particular to the specifications of the device you are attaching, with these output characteristics.

Alternatively, you can cut the pull-up resistor for the zone, which is risky and has warranty implications, but which then simplifies the interfacing problem to one of voltage scaling.

Once you have a nice functioning linear full-scale zone input, you have to convert the 0-255 digital value to something useful, like actual temperature, humidity, pressure, distance, whatever. Let's just say that the Elk does not excel at math.

The Elk temperature sensors actually do not even use the analog zone characteristics, they use a serial protocol (again according to Spanky) which is implemented only on the main board zones 1-16. You *could* in principle design an interface for the LM34 which would implement this protocol, and then use zone definition 33 as intended. But you would simply exchange the above complexity for complexity of a different kind.

BSR and others have done considerable investigation of this situation over 2-3 years, including not incidentally analog interfacing the LM34, with mixed results. For my part, time is too valuable and there are plentiful alternatives. I use other devices for analog measurements, and use the M1 in those many situations where it functions best.
 
FYI. most of the inexpensive desktop switches use passive cooling and should be fine in the can. At work, we place them in the legs of conference tables along with power supplies for the confernce phone. No air flow at all and no problem with them. At least with the netgear ones we use.
 
Thanks for the reassurance Gizmo.
I ended up going with a Netgear G108. It will be a while before I hook it up, but I will let you all know if I have problems ;)

FYI. most of the inexpensive desktop switches use passive cooling and should be fine in the can. At work, we place them in the legs of conference tables along with power supplies for the confernce phone. No air flow at all and no problem with them. At least with the netgear ones we use.
 
I am rearranging my wiring a bit as part of some basement renovations and I am wondering at what point should I think about actively cooling my can? What is the easiest way to monitor the temp inside the can? Can I simply add a thermistor of some sort to an analog zone on the M1 with minimal tinkering?

FWIW in connection with temperature control, Spanky pointed out the possibility of using an M1KAM, which I did not know about.
http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showto...11159&st=14
 
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