More LED bulb options
- Thread starter signal15
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I actually have a lot of CFLs in my house and have not had the failure rate with them that you guys seem to. Mine have been going for a couple of years at least and I have only had a couple of them go out. That being said, the way I am doing the whole LED thing is to buy an LED every time I have a bulb go out.
apostolakisl
Senior Member
I haven't seen an LED that dims properly. They all stay the same color and then about two-thirds way down on the dimming they click off. The better ones do have good color, so no problems at all with that.
I want to switch to LED becuase I like the concept of efficiency and I like the idea of hopefully never having to change the bulb again, especially where the bulb is in a 12 foot ceiling. But I want it to turn orange when it dims, that is just part of the romantic candle like light that a dimmed bulb is all about. And I want the smooth on/off, that is a large reason for spending so much money on fancy light switches.
Of course you have a very different situation. You live in a place where the government is manipulating the markets, so you "voluntarily" buy a lightbulb for $9 that they involuntarily sold you when they collected your taxes. Or maybe that $.41/kwh is where the money came from, either way, you sort of have to buy the bulbs as you are paying for them anyway.
I want to switch to LED becuase I like the concept of efficiency and I like the idea of hopefully never having to change the bulb again, especially where the bulb is in a 12 foot ceiling. But I want it to turn orange when it dims, that is just part of the romantic candle like light that a dimmed bulb is all about. And I want the smooth on/off, that is a large reason for spending so much money on fancy light switches.
Of course you have a very different situation. You live in a place where the government is manipulating the markets, so you "voluntarily" buy a lightbulb for $9 that they involuntarily sold you when they collected your taxes. Or maybe that $.41/kwh is where the money came from, either way, you sort of have to buy the bulbs as you are paying for them anyway.
If dimming is very important to you, just add a second set of 25w incandescent lights with dimmers for when you want them dim. With the money you save using the LEDs at 100% brightnes, you'll have lots of extra cash to pay to get the lights installed.
apostolakisl
Senior Member
I have tried mixing the led's with incandescents, it doesn't work becuase as you dim the lights, the incandescents dim more at first, up to a point, then the leds' "pop" off. For example, with the dimmer at 50%, the led's only look modestly dimmer with no color shift, but the incandescents look a lot dimmer and are turning yellow/orange. At roughly 25% the led's click off and the incandescnets are still glowing "candle light" orange. And, of course, it does the same thing in reverse as you ramp up the dimmer. You would have to have two separate switches with 2 bulbs in each space for a mix of bulbs to look proper. The led's look great at full power (CREE LR6) and you really have to look hard to see a difference between them and incandescents.
But even in places where I always use full power, you get that "pop" on and "pop" off as they ramp up/down using my Insteon switches at a .5 second or 1 second ramp rate. Having them do that totally defeats having the ramp rate option at all.
All I want is a light bulb that is exactly the same as an incandescent but uses 10% of the electricity. Am I asking too much? :mellow:
drozwood90
Senior Member
"yes"
If you are ok with 10% LESS (not 90% less), use HEHalogens. They (generally) use a bit more power than CFL but are WAAAAY brighter and richer...
I've used 40W HEHalogens where 75W CFLs were used. Looked "decent" to me. (so in this case the Halogen uses less power than a CFL, since you can use a much lower wattage HE Halogen).
Kind of like these 40W LEDs...they really "feel" like 60W bulbs.
--Dan
apostolakisl
Senior Member
"yes"
If you are ok with 10% LESS (not 90% less), use HEHalogens. They (generally) use a bit more power than CFL but are WAAAAY brighter and richer...
I've used 40W HEHalogens where 75W CFLs were used. Looked "decent" to me. (so in this case the Halogen uses less power than a CFL, since you can use a much lower wattage HE Halogen).
Kind of like these 40W LEDs...they really "feel" like 60W bulbs.
--Dan
I had sort of thought about that in a loose way. I think I'll try a few of those. Although I'd like to save more than just 10% if I'm going to all the troulbe. However, halogen light often times is superior in quality to even incandescent. I'll have to look at the bulb price, life expectancy, and physical forms available as well.
Unfortunately at this point, there is no perfect bulbs. You could wait for this magic bulb to appear, but in the mean time you are wasting electricity. I went with the CFL phase for a while, but not only don't they really dim, they take time to warm up when its a bit chilly, and worst of all, they never seemed to last very long. The CREE LR6 bulbs are fantastic. They use 25% less power than CFL, have better color-temps, start instantly, and should last for 10-15 years. Even at $80 each, they will pay for themselves in just a few years, not to mention all the AC savings because they barely get warm. They do dim to about 25% which is all I need and the few times I need to dim more, I have other lights in the room for that purpose. Most of them are in hallways, closets, and in rooms where dimming isn't required.
At $80 per bulb it seems like they would pay for themselves in about 7+ years in my home.
As for AC savings, I live in Massachusetts. So for every dollar incandescents cost me in the summer because of my AC, they probably save me a dollar on my heating bill in the winter!
I guess the big question is how much are you paying for electricity.
As for AC savings, I live in Massachusetts. So for every dollar incandescents cost me in the summer because of my AC, they probably save me a dollar on my heating bill in the winter!
I guess the big question is how much are you paying for electricity.
tmbrown97
Senior Member
Hey Lou,
Before I went full bore with these cheap LED bulbs, I did test a few things... including putting them in a fixture mixed with incandescent and regular bulbs to test; and also on a UPB switch that controlled separate loads but via the same scene; and alone on a fixture/circuit. I tested dimming side-by-side for when they flash on and off just to see because of all the concerns you listed.
I will say that I was extremely impressed with how those cheap $10 bulbs dimmed. If Dimming up from full off, they don't come on as perfectly as the incandescents do - but once they "pop" on their dim rate was pretty equivalent to the incandescents in the same fixture - they seemed to "pop" on at about 20% or so. From there while dimming up or down, they stayed right in line with the incandescents next to them. Dimming down, there was never a "pop off" (maybe if you try to dim down below 10%) - they dimmed very smoothly all the way down.
I guess words probably don't describe it well - I should try to grab a picture of the two side by side with my dimmer set to a slow ramp... I'll try to do that this evening. Of course my phone's camera is going to butcher the color temperature so you'll have to ignore that.
But - you're right - the color doesn't go to the warm white romantic color - it stays pretty consistent through the range... but you've seen my electric rates and ROI... and with two very young kids, lets just say romance is hardly worth $78/month to me right now (because it's unlikely to help). Show me a way to get the kids to bed an hour earlier, and that I might pay $78/month for
Before I went full bore with these cheap LED bulbs, I did test a few things... including putting them in a fixture mixed with incandescent and regular bulbs to test; and also on a UPB switch that controlled separate loads but via the same scene; and alone on a fixture/circuit. I tested dimming side-by-side for when they flash on and off just to see because of all the concerns you listed.
I will say that I was extremely impressed with how those cheap $10 bulbs dimmed. If Dimming up from full off, they don't come on as perfectly as the incandescents do - but once they "pop" on their dim rate was pretty equivalent to the incandescents in the same fixture - they seemed to "pop" on at about 20% or so. From there while dimming up or down, they stayed right in line with the incandescents next to them. Dimming down, there was never a "pop off" (maybe if you try to dim down below 10%) - they dimmed very smoothly all the way down.
I guess words probably don't describe it well - I should try to grab a picture of the two side by side with my dimmer set to a slow ramp... I'll try to do that this evening. Of course my phone's camera is going to butcher the color temperature so you'll have to ignore that.
But - you're right - the color doesn't go to the warm white romantic color - it stays pretty consistent through the range... but you've seen my electric rates and ROI... and with two very young kids, lets just say romance is hardly worth $78/month to me right now (because it's unlikely to help). Show me a way to get the kids to bed an hour earlier, and that I might pay $78/month for
apostolakisl
Senior Member
Hey Lou,
Before I went full bore with these cheap LED bulbs, I did test a few things... including putting them in a fixture mixed with incandescent and regular bulbs to test; and also on a UPB switch that controlled separate loads but via the same scene; and alone on a fixture/circuit. I tested dimming side-by-side for when they flash on and off just to see because of all the concerns you listed.
I will say that I was extremely impressed with how those cheap $10 bulbs dimmed. If Dimming up from full off, they don't come on as perfectly as the incandescents do - but once they "pop" on their dim rate was pretty equivalent to the incandescents in the same fixture - they seemed to "pop" on at about 20% or so. From there while dimming up or down, they stayed right in line with the incandescents next to them. Dimming down, there was never a "pop off" (maybe if you try to dim down below 10%) - they dimmed very smoothly all the way down.
I guess words probably don't describe it well - I should try to grab a picture of the two side by side with my dimmer set to a slow ramp... I'll try to do that this evening. Of course my phone's camera is going to butcher the color temperature so you'll have to ignore that.
But - you're right - the color doesn't go to the warm white romantic color - it stays pretty consistent through the range... but you've seen my electric rates and ROI... and with two very young kids, lets just say romance is hardly worth $78/month to me right now (because it's unlikely to help). Show me a way to get the kids to bed an hour earlier, and that I might pay $78/month for
OK, I will give them a try. I ordered 5 of them at Lowe's. I assumed that 9.95 price was with some sort of CA rebate or something, but I can get them here for that price too. I don't quite get how these bulbs are sooo much cheaper than the others. Anyway, I am planning on using these in some ceiling cans at the office. If they look good I will get more. My electric rate is quite a bit higher at the office and dimming is less of an issue.
drozwood90
Senior Member
Why so much cheaper? I've been thinking it is to see what the market would bear. Since CFL's can be had for $1-2 each...if these drop to 9, will people buy them?
--Dan
--Dan
Neurorad
Senior Member
Looks like the new Cree LMR4 $70) and CR6 ($50) dim to 5%, better than the 20% with LR6 ($80).
Cree come with the downlight trim ring, which usually run $15-20, for your typical can light.
I just replaced 14 can lights in my house with sealed IC-rated units. Trim rings were more expensive than the housings. Should have bought the Cree LEDs instead.
Cree come with the downlight trim ring, which usually run $15-20, for your typical can light.
I just replaced 14 can lights in my house with sealed IC-rated units. Trim rings were more expensive than the housings. Should have bought the Cree LEDs instead.
Neurorad,
Might I askas to where you are getting the LMR4's for $70? It appears to be a new lamp from cree, currently there LR4's (no M) are 106 to 160 apiece online. Hard to swallow when the excellent CR6's are so prevalent and, relatively speaking, cheap. I have contemplated buying a CR6 and seeing if I can mod it for a 4" can the prices are so different. I have 4" cans in the kitchen because I feel that offered the best look, and those are the lights in my house that spend the most time on and I would like to get LED's in.
All,
Hopefully this fits in with the LED lighting theme of this thread. Does anyone have an under counter LED lighting system that can be hardwired to UPB (or any lighting tech for that matter) dimmable switches? Most under counter systems that are dimmable seem to come with there own controller/power supply and plug into an outlet. I am looking for a more built in solution that works with my scene lighting.
Thanks for the help.
