I have a very long front porch along the entire south side of the house (for summer solar shading). Visitors can approach from one side along the house or directly toward the house. I got an Optex LX402 for another location and experimented with several locations on the porch before I put it in the other location. It works well in it's planned location but I didn't get good results on the porch - I think because these type sensors aren't very sensitive to people moving directly toward the sensor. They have blind spots and if you stay in one it won't trigger. I am now wondering about mounting it on the ceiling at about 45 degree angle so it has coverage out into the yard. Anyone done that with an IR sensor that can tell me how well it works?
Motion sensor positioning for porch?
- Thread starter JimS
- Start date
Pete,
Can you give some examples? I understand you could combine this with, for example, a magnetic driveway sensor or a daylight sensor but I am having trouble thinking of applications for that.
I could use two sensors in different locations to get the coverage with good sensitivity. Mainly hoping to do it with one.
Can you give some examples? I understand you could combine this with, for example, a magnetic driveway sensor or a daylight sensor but I am having trouble thinking of applications for that.
I could use two sensors in different locations to get the coverage with good sensitivity. Mainly hoping to do it with one.
pete_c
Guru
Well here I utilize the Leviton HAI OmniPro panel and Homeseer. First though sensors were combo Optex PIR/Cams then everything else.
Basically both are the same. You can call the variable a flag if you want.
Basic stuff...mix n match.....driveway, PIR, thumpers (well my name), even camera video motion stuff....relating to outside.
BTW its all wired but you probably can also utilize wireless; personally just dislike having to change batteries.
Its never really been 100% of a sure bet for any one in particular device although you can make it closer to a sure bet adding more variables to the mix.
if variable1 and variable 2 and variable 3 is on then turn on variable 4.
Do the same for my little el cheapo RF ID sensors using three receivers and three variables for one device.
Been working fine for years.
Here is the example in Homeseer; (long math) -Event tabs defined as: (now you can do this in linux too). You can lose track sometimes with hundreds of variables and events with multiple pieces of hardware.
Something here I do review events that are running that I no longer need or want. I back up everything but also print out pages of screen prints to remind me of what I am doing. It gets a bit convoluted when you have events that depend on other events to run or variables defined in other events. Sometimes its just better to keep it simple; well just like a timed event with single variables triggered by single pieces of hardware.
I have also utilized scripts. I have one configured for the two garage doors which does a bunch of stuff and is the same for the two doors and all of the events. Easier to track on one script but it has static stuff in it; IE: like variable names rather than generic stuff. The script talks (literally) when I can interrupt it at anytime; which I need these days.
Name
- AutomobileHomeON
- Not logged ever switch is on
- doesn't retrigger in XX seconds
Trigger
I set up a group of conditions and call it group 1. Here too you can set it to wait until the trigger script or events finish to proceed or just proceed even though the trigger has not totally finished.
You make as simple or complex as you want.
- The name of the group condition is called "Automobilename" (you can get fancier with sub triggers that use time, date or other variables)
- The set conditions (again Homeseer 2 longhand) are:
- RFID reciever #1 receives an ON from specific tag for XX time
- RFID receiver #3 receives an ON from specific tag for XX time
- RFID reciever #3 recieves an ON from specific tag for XX time
Action
- Turn ON a defined variable
- Display some custom Icon and verbiage for the ON variable
- Like anything you nest other subroutines. I have gotten into endless circular nested loops before fat fingering my stuff.
HAI OPII Panel: (I never look).
Here I have had just a couple of issues. Little rabbits and coyotes and recently a let loose to wonder domestic cat.
I know that the coyotes dine on the little rabbits. I like that animal natural selection thing.
Basically both are the same. You can call the variable a flag if you want.
Basic stuff...mix n match.....driveway, PIR, thumpers (well my name), even camera video motion stuff....relating to outside.
BTW its all wired but you probably can also utilize wireless; personally just dislike having to change batteries.
Its never really been 100% of a sure bet for any one in particular device although you can make it closer to a sure bet adding more variables to the mix.
if variable1 and variable 2 and variable 3 is on then turn on variable 4.
Do the same for my little el cheapo RF ID sensors using three receivers and three variables for one device.
Been working fine for years.
Here is the example in Homeseer; (long math) -Event tabs defined as: (now you can do this in linux too). You can lose track sometimes with hundreds of variables and events with multiple pieces of hardware.
Something here I do review events that are running that I no longer need or want. I back up everything but also print out pages of screen prints to remind me of what I am doing. It gets a bit convoluted when you have events that depend on other events to run or variables defined in other events. Sometimes its just better to keep it simple; well just like a timed event with single variables triggered by single pieces of hardware.
I have also utilized scripts. I have one configured for the two garage doors which does a bunch of stuff and is the same for the two doors and all of the events. Easier to track on one script but it has static stuff in it; IE: like variable names rather than generic stuff. The script talks (literally) when I can interrupt it at anytime; which I need these days.
Name
- AutomobileHomeON
- Not logged ever switch is on
- doesn't retrigger in XX seconds
Trigger
I set up a group of conditions and call it group 1. Here too you can set it to wait until the trigger script or events finish to proceed or just proceed even though the trigger has not totally finished.
You make as simple or complex as you want.
- The name of the group condition is called "Automobilename" (you can get fancier with sub triggers that use time, date or other variables)
- The set conditions (again Homeseer 2 longhand) are:
- RFID reciever #1 receives an ON from specific tag for XX time
- RFID receiver #3 receives an ON from specific tag for XX time
- RFID reciever #3 recieves an ON from specific tag for XX time
Action
- Turn ON a defined variable
- Display some custom Icon and verbiage for the ON variable
- Like anything you nest other subroutines. I have gotten into endless circular nested loops before fat fingering my stuff.
HAI OPII Panel: (I never look).
Here I have had just a couple of issues. Little rabbits and coyotes and recently a let loose to wonder domestic cat.
I know that the coyotes dine on the little rabbits. I like that animal natural selection thing.
You should also learn a bit about how the sensors work, so you can make the best use of them. Passive IR sensors (and I once worked with the guy that invented these) have "fingers" that spread from the sensor. Each "finger" gets an IR signature, and they are triggered when the signature changes from one "finger" to the next. Basically they are the MOST sensitive when you move ACROSS them and they can be very insensitive when you move directly toward or away from them. They also get less sensitive the closer the background temp is to the temp of the person moving. Radar and ultrasonic sensors emit a wave, and look for the Doppler shift that indicates something is moving toward or away from them. Just like police radar, they can not measure much the instant you move right past them, and they generally are not bothered much when the outside temp changes.
Passive IR sensors seem to be the most available (because they are cheap) but other types are available as well, and some combine multiple technologies. Each should come with instructions on how to mount them best for your application, so make sure you read them.
Passive IR sensors seem to be the most available (because they are cheap) but other types are available as well, and some combine multiple technologies. Each should come with instructions on how to mount them best for your application, so make sure you read them.
pete_c
Guru
@JimS,
How about a drawing (even just quickie pencil drawing would work).
Is the porch open (like a sun room with just screens?) or does it have a regular roof?
BTW I mentioned using the Homeseer GUI and use of RFID stuff above "long hand".
I take care of the two garage door with multiple sensors/ TTS et al using one script which I switched to a few years back.
Here's a quick sketch. I think the notes should explain it. I am thinking of mounting it higher than normal (porch ceiling is about 10 feet) and aiming it down at about a 45 degree angle so it will detect directly below. Most motion coming from the far left will be detected with another sensor. Porch has a roof but open sides and front.
View attachment MotionLocation.pdf
View attachment MotionLocation.pdf
Here's a quick sketch. I think the notes should explain it. I am thinking of mounting it higher than normal (porch ceiling is about 10 feet) and aiming it down at about a 45 degree angle so it will detect directly below. Most motion coming from the far left will be detected with another sensor. Porch has a roof but open sides and front.
Attached File MotionLocation.pdf 65.02K 12 downloads
If you move your MS to the left a fair bit both directions of travel will cut across the sensor surface giving better sensitivity. In the current drawing both directions of travel are straight into the sensor and where the sensitivity to motion is the lowest.
Attached File MotionLocation.pdf 65.02K 12 downloads
If you move your MS to the left a fair bit both directions of travel will cut across the sensor surface giving better sensitivity. In the current drawing both directions of travel are straight into the sensor and where the sensitivity to motion is the lowest.
The problem with a far right side mounting I tried is that the left approach was toward the sensor and very poor. But my thinking is that due to the high mounting of the sensor I showed both directions are not directly toward the sensor. If I move the sensor to the left it reduces the chance of detecting someone approaching from the top (of the drawing). Think I am just mount my existing sensor on a tall post so I can try it.
pete_c
Guru
Yup; here do that post thing for one combo Optex device. Its on one corner and sweeps the entire deck at an angle.
Part of the deck has an overhang from the house; but its not a porch. Curious how you will mount a post inside of the porch?
Will it be outside facing in?
Here is a blurry picture with the house shadowing much of the deck.
Attachments
The post would just be a 2 x 4 for trial, not permanent. Put some wiring on it to portable power supply and an indicator for the contacts. Then I could lean the post against the house in different positions and walk around to test the detection. I did this before and it was worked well but I didn't find a location that had good overall detection. I had already planned to put the sensor in a different area and did that after my testing. Now I have a few more sensor locations I would like to try. I can mount the sensor to the side of the house or ceiling of the porch once I determine a good location.
pete_c
Guru
Yup; did similiar mobilizing / testing a line of sight antenna a few years back. (different though as I was on my roof and had to pay attention to where I was walking).
Works and is a neato way to test stuff like this. After a bit you can almost visualize the footprint even though you cannot see it.
I utilize auditory TTS cues sometimes for this stuff cuz I cannot see the little LEDs in the bright sun and I have an audio zone there such that I take advantage of it. Tried also the netbook / tablet thing which really is a PITA in the sunlight to see. You can also probably build a tiny little piezo tweeter so you can listen for beeping.
Works and is a neato way to test stuff like this. After a bit you can almost visualize the footprint even though you cannot see it.
I utilize auditory TTS cues sometimes for this stuff cuz I cannot see the little LEDs in the bright sun and I have an audio zone there such that I take advantage of it. Tried also the netbook / tablet thing which really is a PITA in the sunlight to see. You can also probably build a tiny little piezo tweeter so you can listen for beeping.
