Mutli-zoned HVAC

[pete]

I'm not sure what the economizer is, or does. .

typically they let you use outside air when the temp is suitable . . . you need a fresh air intake duct with a controllable damper (not usually found in residential, but required in new commercial work (in Metro-NY area at least)

. . . ie: on a cool evening you would just bring cool fresh air in for your overheating home theater . . .

. . . or another possibility . . .

. . . have you considered installing an exhaust fan and air transfer for your home theater . . . the exhaust fan would be controlled by a thermostat . . . when the t-stat says it's too warm, the fan runs, pulling hot air from the space (and dumping it somewhere else in the upstairs zone), and the transfer (just a hole in the wall with grills both sides, preferably the opposite corner of the room, down low to the floor) lets cool air in . . . the fan should be mounted away from (and ducted to) the HT to avoid the noise . . .


Pete C

I love my country, but fear my government.

 

[ellisr63]

Hi,
I have the AprilAire 8870 and will be getting the ELK M1 shortly which will be integrated with CQC. Would this work?

1: use 1 AprilAire 8870 thermostat (with serial connection) and put Aprilaire temp sensors in each zone.

2: open and close the dampeners with the Elk from my 3400 tablets which are in each room running CQC client software.
Ron

 

[a0128958]

This is a very helpful posting. I've been looking for a replacement for my 14 year old Enerstat 3+2 Zone Control panel, one that would support two-stage thermostats (I use AprilAire's 8870s) and still include smoke and temperature sensing like my Enerstat panel does.

I plan to look around to see where to purchase the EWC panel and proceed to install it.

Best regards,

Bill Neukranz

 

[Black Magic]

Hi,
I have the AprilAire 8870 and will be getting the ELK M1 shortly which will be integrated with CQC. Would this work?

1: use 1 AprilAire 8870 thermostat (with serial connection) and put Aprilaire temp sensors in each zone.

2: open and close the dampeners with the Elk from my 3400 tablets which are in each room running CQC client software.
Ron

You'll need to double check with AprilAire, but it could be averaging the temperatures from all the sensors, or just taking the lowest one. The dampers could be controlled by the Elk, but you would have to program the logic your self, or manually open/close the dampers with your 3400. This setup won't get you a fully automated multi-zone HVAC system. It will; however, be cheaper.

 

[Black Magic]

I plan to look around to see where to purchase the EWC panel and proceed to install it.

Post back on this thread where you found a good deal on the EWC panel. Also post back how your installation went.

 

[a0128958]

I haven't found a source, or dealer, yet.

Installation should be straight forward as my Enerstat 3+2 panel appears to be wire-for-wire compatible with the EWC panel (not including new features that the EWC panel offers). I'm already familiar with and use low limit, high limit, clock, fire alarm interface, and 3-wire dampers (I use Belimo damper motors).

Will do post back on purchase and installation experience.

Best regards,

Bill Neukranz

 

[AceCannon]

I haven't found a source, or dealer, yet.

Installation should be straight forward as my Enerstat 3+2 panel appears to be wire-for-wire compatible with the EWC panel (not including new features that the EWC panel offers). I'm already familiar with and use low limit, high limit, clock, fire alarm interface, and 3-wire dampers (I use Belimo damper motors).

Will do post back on purchase and installation experience.

Best regards,

Bill Neukranz

Bump - it has been 2 years.

 

[sic0048]

Black Magic - did you ever install a zoned system? I'm just curious.

I just bought a RCS TR-16 and while I do not have a zoned system now, I will probably get one when my current system needs replacing. We live in a split level with a large sun room off the back. So the house really needs at least 4 zones (one for each level and one for the sun room). I got the TR-16 because it was such a good deal, but I'm also aware that I can use it with the RCS zoned systems. So at least I won't have to replace it if I upgrade to a zoned system in the future.

Did ELK ever add support for the zone controller? I know they support the thermostat, but I plan on using CQC for that. It will save me the cost of buying a ELK serial expander.

 

[boyfly]

Can someone get this in the "How-To's and Guides" section? It's very informative. I'm glad someone bumped it. Thanks.

 

[electron]

Great suggestion, I just moved it.

 

[Black Magic]

Black Magic - did you ever install a zoned system? I'm just curious.

I just bought a RCS TR-16 and while I do not have a zoned system now, I will probably get one when my current system needs replacing. We live in a split level with a large sun room off the back. So the house really needs at least 4 zones (one for each level and one for the sun room). I got the TR-16 because it was such a good deal, but I'm also aware that I can use it with the RCS zoned systems. So at least I won't have to replace it if I upgrade to a zoned system in the future.

Did ELK ever add support for the zone controller? I know they support the thermostat, but I plan on using CQC for that. It will save me the cost of buying a ELK serial expander.

I ended up programming my Elk M1 Gold to be the Zone Controller: http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=7149

The code has been very stable (I've been running my house on it for almost 2 years now). The attachment in the old thread is a bit outdated. I have a couple of changes in my current implementation. I just haven't had time to scrub it and upload the latest code.

 

[JimS]

An economizer allows outside air to be pulled in for "free" cooling as has been said. Very helpful in commercial buildings with lots of heat generating equipment. It also is required to have some minimum amount of outdoor air brought in for ventilation. For this there is a minimum setting so the dampers don't close all the way and always allow some outdoor air. They have been around for quite a while but the older controls are very simple outdoor temperature or enthalpy (simply stated this is temp and humidity combined).

I had an outdoor air duct installed when our house was built but just had a manual damper installed. I want to put in a better sealing damper and automate it. I figure I can also automate some of our windows (casements so a gear motor would work well). The outdoor duct connects to the return. By putting a damper in the rest of the returns and coordinating the two dampers and windows I can use the furnace fan to pull in outdoor air and push it out the windows for low cost heating and cooling when the conditions are right.

Given the cost of good dampers and needing to fit this in space between joists I am thinking I will just build the dampers to fit out of basic materials: bearings, sheet metal, etc. The only one that needs to seal well is the outdoor one. Seems like I should be able to find info from others who have done things like this online but I haven't...

Here is a related site:
http://diy-zoning.sourceforge.net/index.html
Although it doesn't have much on in duct dampers...

My plan was to make the controls so that failure would revert to the existing thermostat.

 

[PiperPilot]

Hey everyone...I have a similar situation as the user that started this thread. In my case, my home office is about 5-10 degrees hotter than other rooms in the house. This is due to a few computers, networking equipment, etc.

My house does not have Zoned AC but does have 2 seperate heat pump units. The "Main" part of the house is driven off of one unit and my office, master bedroom and master bath are driven off of another smaller unit.

The proposed zoning solution with dampers and worrying about pressure, etc seems a little more than what I want to undertake just to lower the temperature of my office. What I was thinking was a little different approach:

- Instead of a damper, install a boost fan inline in my ducting for my office. When the AC is running, it will draw more of the cold air into my office, thus lowering the temperature quicker.

- Use a wireless thermometer and motion detector to monitor the temperature in the office and motion for ocupancy.

- Trigger the thermostat to turn on the AC when temperature gets too hot in the office, only if there is occupancy. Also turn on the boost fan.

So for boost fan, I am thinking about something like this:

http://www.smarthome.com/3014/12-In-110VAC...an-DB212/p.aspx

I can turn it on/off with a zwave appliance module from my zwave equipped Homeseer system.

For controlled thermostat, I was thinking about the Wayne-Dalton Zwave Thermostat that HS sells. This is fairly inexpensive and looks pretty easy to use. The question I had about that unit...is there something that I could use to "Trigger" it to cool? Or would I just need to use HS to adjust the set-point lower than the temperature and then when things are cool enough, raise it back up?

I am pretty sure that I can accomplish what I am trying to achieve through some simple programming, I just wanted to check with you experts to see if this is really a viable option.

What do you think?

Thanks,
PiperPilot

 

[icellama21]

Remember to ensure adequate return from the office, especially if you are going to close off the room or if it has high ceilings. It will make the heating/boosting much more efficient. I think the safest way to interface with your HVAC is via the thermostat. Most thermostats are just contact-closure devices, so in theory you can put a relay across the heating/cooling and reversing valve terminals, but there is the risk of damaging your HVAC equipment. Best to let the thermostats handle it.

 

[inline]

Nice, informative write up. Good job!

ELK is looking at the RCS ZCV.

Spanky - Is any work still being done to support the RCS ZCV product? I'd like to implement with TS40 WDU's, as I have a current non-HA zone controller that I'll be forced to live with if I have to just go with TR40 thermostats.