My IR Integration

[jrfuda]

BTW - I'm going to put my PowerMid receiver on an appliance module and turn it on only when we're viewing a DVD in a remote room - that way there won't be any IR interference during normal (99% of the time) viewing). The noise the PowerMids have generated so far is present, but not high enough prevent desired IR reception by my equipment - it's mostly just a nuisance seing the indicator LEDs flashing on and off (though, this will be remedied when my IRLinc arrives and the PowerMid is hard-wired in, though it may also enhance the interferance).

 

[jrfuda]

Here's the diagram if the hard-wired IR and amplifier are added...

 

[Mike]

Another option to consider:

Homerun the coax to each location, but also run a 4 conductor (or cat5) to carry IR.

I did this for a few reasons:
1. I heard there was some issue in passing satellite and then using specific channels for modulators (I don't remember the reason for this, and this may be inaccurate). Maybe this was if you didn't put the box in the room (I can't remember).
2. I wanted to do 5 runs of coax for hi-def (component + audio) distribution as well, and did not want to use the injectors.
3. Simple (as long as you can get the wiring there).
4. You can understand where things are coming from, and use the zone feature if required (automation could understand which zone was generating IR, haven't gotten to this or even close yet).

CablesToGo has quickport plugins for 3.5mm plugs which I used to allow the IR eye to be plugged in. It does mean a TV has 2 connections (coax and IR) though.

I used the 4 zone xantech block (found it new on ebay for $75, normally I think you can get it for $140). I used a channel plus distribution amplifier to take cable (now I use cable but I'm setup for satellite which I had before) and a modulator input (2 inputs for modulators) and output to 8 locations.

Right now I only have a channel plus all in one 2 channel modulator hooked up to 2 tivos, but I had planned on adding at least one 4 channel modulator for cameras or other sources (although I was leaning towards component for other av sources).

 

[jrfuda]

I have to use my existing infrastructure becuase I'm in the military, a serial-renter, and move every 2-3 years ('bout 18month to go before I move again ). Adding the splitters to the existing coax runs will be of minimal impact on the existing coax runs - I think the cables are already barreled together in the spost where I'd put the splitters at, so it would just be a swap-out.

The Dish Network boxes I have have a built-in modulator... One box is designed to feed 2-rooms, with the signal to the remote room being on a user-defined modulated channel and controlled by an RF remote (whereas the tuner in the primary room - that is the room with the actual box - is controlled by an IR remote). So I have a total of 2 boxes with the ability to watch 4 different shows (2 on each box) at once.

With the forthecoming Dish 622 DVR (available Feb 1) The ante will be upped to 2 HD and 1 SD program capable of being tuned at once on the same box, so I can watch/record 5 different things at once (2 SD on Dish 522 + 1 SD & 2 HD on Dish 622).

In another 10 years when I stop moving and can build a house, then I can go to a true HQ wired solution, but HOPEFULLY by then we can controll/view everything by IP and a single run of CAT 5/6 or fiber to each device will carry everything with room for more!

 

[Mike]

In another 10 years when I stop moving and can build a house, then I can go to a true HQ wired solution, but HOPEFULLY by then we can controll/view everything by IP and a single run of CAT 5/6 or fiber to each device will carry everything with room for more!

Makes perfect sense then (I never tried the injectors so can't add anything there). And very well put on 'in the future'. It should be as easy as it once was to just run a wire to the room (coax in the past) and be all set (pre-boxes).

 

[jrfuda]

I finished installing everything this morning (less the hard-wired IR distro, which I am still unddecided on) and its working well. I did not have to install the amplifier to get a good signal, but I did have to shuffle my original channels around a bit.

My Dish Network boxes only modulate OTA channels 21-68, so having one of them on 19 was out of the question. I tried putting one of the other modulated channels on 19, but it caused waaaaay to much inteference on channel 21.

The image below shows how I have my channels mapped now. I had to turn the gain on the Dayton 3-channel modulator down to about 50% in order to get rid of a herringbone pattern that was appearing on the Dish-modulated channels - though I did have to sacrifice a wee bit of clarity of the Dayton-modulated channels in order to achieve this. There's a tiny bit of snow on all the modulated channels, but it's not very noticeable at a normal viewing distance on the 32", 27", and 19" TVs that receive the modulated content. I suppose, now that they're all on equal footing (the Dish and Dayton channels) that I could try putting the amp in place (which I have from an older setup) and see if some of the snoe goes away (So I reduced the gain of the Dayton channels to make it play nice with the Dish channels and then boost the power of all the channels..) I'm not going to go out of my way to do this, though. The next time I'm messing arounf behind everything, I'll hook it up and see what happens.

 

[jrfuda]

Oh, and for giggles, here's yet another diagram I put together showing the modulation and IR integrated (if the hard-wired IR's added).

 

[jrfuda]

Well, after a few days of noise and unreliable performance from the PowerMids, I ordered the Xantech IR Coupling/Injecting equipment. Worthington had some bundles that allowed me to add them for about $30 per room with non-CFL freindly IR receivers (which I don't need in those rooms).

Anyway, installation was pretty easy and ALMOST everything worked right away. I think I may have a non-DC passing barrel connecting some cable going to one of my rooms becuase I cannot get my equipment to respond to commands from it, so I may have to do some attic crawling this weekend to track it down. My "Master Bedroom" and "JC's Room" remotes work perfectly, however.

While I was playing with cables, I went ahead and installed a 10db amp I already had in the place specifed in my diagrams, I also installed a high-pass filter that I already had to help with some of the herringbone patters I was getting in my modulated pictures, which I beleive to be noise created by my bidget-priced modulator. Well, it worked. I leveled the playing field between by Dish DVR modulated and modulator modulated channels and now have crytal clear pictures on all five modulated channels (21, 50, 62, 64, 66) in all rooms. SWEET!

I'm very pleased with the setup. The wife and I have already used the feature to watch the last 20 minutes or so of two movies we started in the living rooms and finished in the bedroom.

EDIT: One thing to note... The Xantech hard-wired over existing cable scheme is not completely noise free. I do see the emmitter coming from the coupler blinking every once in a while when there's no one sending signals in the other rooms - I can tell the noise is coming from the cable and not from the rooms, becuase the "receiving IR" LEDs on the receivers in the remote rooms are NOT blinking. So somehwere among the various injectors, splitters, and the coupler, some sort of DC noise is being generated that is being intepretted by the coupler (which feeds the emitter) as anIR signal is being generated. The noise is minimal and does not affect performance at all, however. I'm going to eventually remove the emmitter from the coupler, replace it with an IRLinc (the one I had is being RMA's due to a defect) and hard-wire it to my connecting block - then I won't even notice the noise 'cause I won't be able to see it

 

[Mike]

The noise you see is not tied to the cable approach. I have that on my hardwired zoned Xantech system. I am not using CFL eyes, but I can see the status lights very softly flickering when there is no activity (very clear when an IR signal is being sent).

 

[jrfuda]

Maybe the non-CFL friendly receivers in the remote rooms is picking up a little bit of noise - not enough to make their eyes flicker, but enough to flicker on the coupler end, where the poower of three seperate receivers all come together (trippling the occurance of noise). Since I did not have any CFL sources in the remote rooms I couldn't justify spending another $30 per room for the CFL-freindly receiver, though I know for sure that the CFL-friednly receiver in the living room never flickers a bit on its own.

As I said before, the noise is there but does not create any problems at all. I figure I may "see" noise for - maybe - 1/4 of a second once every 2-3 minutes, which means the chance that noise is going to interfere with a legitimate IR signal is very slim, and even if I sent a command at the exact instat there was some noise, I bet my command would overpower the noise and make it to my components anyway.

Overall, I'm very impressed with Xantech's setup and the price is not too bad, especially since I was able to installit all without disturbing much in a rental home - and will be able to easilt take it with me an re-install it in whatever home I move into in the future (as long as all the cables are homerun to somewhere in the house).

One thing I wonder, though, will a TV bought in the future (post 2009)still be able to tune to modulated SD channels, since those freqs are going to be auctioned off for something else? Though, by then, we'll hopefully be doing all this over IP, like we mentioned before.

 

[smee]

I also have a hardwired Xantech system. But I've never seen any flickering. I don't use CFL-friendly receivers, but I also don't have any sources that would require their use.

Do the non-CFL ones react to direct or indirect sunlight?

 

[jrfuda]

I think the CFL-friendly ones are supposed to be more sunlight resisten, and the non-CFL ones more prone to sunlight inteference. Xantech makes some that are specifically meant for outdoor use that - I assume - are very sunlight resistent.

One thing to note, is the more "this or that" resistent a receiver is, the fewer remotes it will work with, but given that the vast majority of remote are in the frequency range that the CFL-friendly ones accept, it really shuld not be a problem.

What's interesting is that I have an infrared light in my Son's room to light-up the room so we can check in on him at night via CCTV, and - even with it blasting - it does not intefere with IR in that room at all and produces no noise on the system. I guess it must be well outside the acceptable frequency range of the receiver in there.

 

[Mike]

I've had mine in place for somewhere between 6 and 9 months and have had no issues, so I don't think you will have a problem based on my own experience. That is using 2 zones (living room and a bedroom so far) currently with both being non cfl resistant eyes (since I had used one to route IR into a cabinet, and had no issues in a living room scenario).

 

[jrfuda]

An update...

Last week I noticed that I had a steady red glow coming from all of my IR equipment that had inidcator lights. It turned out the hidden link receiver in my Son's room had locked-up.

I talked to Worthington and got an RMA and am waiting for a replacement.

However, since removing that receiver, all the "noise" I was seeing is completely gone. So, the noise was really a symptom of a dying receiver.

Once I get my replacement, I should have noise free IR distro from 4 rooms!

 

[damage]

my 4 year old was playing w/ my roomba's invisible wall modules and left them on. the ir they sent out (continuously) jammed my xantech system until i figured out what was causing it. :lol: