My UPB Experience So Far

ano

Senior Member
I’ve made the switch to UPB after 10+ years of X-10. Presently have about 45 switches.
I considered Z-Wave and a few other technologies, but I picked UPB because once you do some debugging, it can be very reliable, I liked the switches, and my HAI panel supports it natively.

Here are my thoughts. First, replacing switches is a big pain, which my wife had to endure for three weekends. I picked the Simply Automated switches because the changeable faceplates allow you to change functions very easily. I mainly use single rockers, but the twin rockers have come in handy, for example, when adding a ceiling fan with a light. Need two switches but only have the space for one. No problem, add a split switch. The switch controls the light, and the second switch controls the fan using a junction box switch.

I have to say that the HAI switches seem more solid, and don’t make a loud click like the SA switches, but the SA switches are much more flexible. Both types are build very well with the exception of the SA remote switches. I don’t recommend those. There plastic, bend, and the LED on them doesn’t even match the color or brightness of the regular switches. Plus, the LEDs on these switches are always on and green. Instead of these, us a regular switch and don’t hook up the load. With simple programming, you can make this switch a remote to any other switch.

So I installed the switches, downloaded the free UPStart program to manage my switches, and my fun began. I had NO signal on the opposite phase. UpStart lets you talk to each device, and see the signal level at every device. Great for debugging.

I added a signal bridge in my box (the new Inverting type) and my signal was better on the opposite phase, but not enough to be reliable. SA was very helpful helping me to debug the problem, and they recommended a second bridge. That helped, but I’ve actually ordered one more to get the signal up there. Now keep in mind, I DON’T have a giant house, maybe 3000 sq. ft. max., next to other houses, etc. The moral, don’t believe that UPB will be instantly reliable for everyone. It definitely wasn’t for me.

As for signal suckers, haven’t really found any. I had about 8 X-10 filters in my house, and they are not needed for UPB. Its very robust, at least once I got the signal strong on both phases.

Once the switches were installed, getting them all to talk together was rather easy with UPStart. The hard part was that there are MANY features for each switch type, and documentation is POOR. Once I figured it out, it’s pretty cool.

With UPB (and maybe Z-wave does this as well) rockers on any switch can be linked to any load. Maybe that’s not unusual, but how smooth they work together is unusual. When you dim the remote switches, you’d never know they weren’t directly wired, its that smooth.

Rockers and keypads are really flexible. You can program what clicking the top or bottom side of the rocker does, what double clicking does, and what holding does. Keyboards support real toggling of lights, whereby turning on or off the light changes the indicator on the keyboard, and pressing a button toggles the light, even if the light wasn’t turned on or off at the keyboard. Very professional.

So far, I’m very happy with UPB, and I haven’t even connected my switch network to Homeseer and my HAI Omni yet. That will make it even better.
 
I DON’T have a giant house, maybe 3000 sq. ft. max., next to other houses, etc. The moral, don’t believe that UPB will be instantly reliable for everyone. It definitely wasn’t for me.

ano,

The first 2 homes I installed UPB were each around 10.000 sq ft. The first one has only 1 coupler and I seem to get good signal everywhere. Nothing less than 15. The house works great with no central controller. Just the SA 240s as control around the house.

The second home is another story. Before installing the UPB, I did a survey of the signal. There was excellent signal strength on each phase (20s and 30s+) but 0 or (2s and 3s) across the phases. This house has 5 panels so we started adding Inverting couplers. We put one in each panel but still had week signal across the phases in some areas.

Then.... on a suggestion from Simply Automated
We found that many of the screws that secure the wiring in the panels were not tight. Some of the breakers, the neutrals and even the main feeders could be turned 1/8 to up to 3/4 turn. As the process of tightening the connections progressed the signal strength throughout the house improved dramatically. Now seeing 30+ through most of the house. SA says anything above 9 will be fine. This also improved the performance of the existing x10.

In addition to improving the signal, this process corrected a serious safety concern as loose connections create heat and can cause a fire. I now routinely check these connections in any home I am planning to add UPB.

By the way the second home also had a battery backup emergency power system that had large capacitors. We had to filter this unit as it interfered with the signal.

The 40+ volt signal that UPB devices send out seems to be a solid replacement for the 4+ volt signal with x10.
 
ano, I'm glad to hear of your mostly positive experience with UPB. I also have a 3k house but I have great signal on both phases. We have underground utilities and the transformer that feeds my house is between me and my neighbor, so maybe this helps. I have no couplers installed. I know I tell people all the time, but I am curious of your impression of one of the things that UPB gets beat up for all the time - the delay turning on the local load. Does that bother you or the family, or have you just gotten used to it? I also agree about the USR (remote) being pathetic, hopefully SAI will correct this in their next release.

Event5 - thats a great tip! I was always taught that the key to a good electrical connection is a good mechanical connection...
 
Rockers and keypads are really flexible. You can program what clicking the top or bottom side of the rocker does, what double clicking does, and what holding does
.

You can also program what release does. This can make a switch a monentary that could control a door lock (buzz in) or one time drive gate operation.

Dave
 
This weekend I will check all the screws. Like EventS, signal seems fine on both sides when the coupler is plugged in, but poor signal across phases. House is about 8 years old, but since I'm in Phoenix, the panel gets a bunch of thermal cycling. Loose screws wouldn't surprise me. Currently I get a few 9's, and all works, but turning on some lights reduce this a bit, so I'd like a tiny bit more.

The slight turn-on delay really hasn't been an issue. Even the fussy wife hasn't mentioned it, but I do hear about any switchplate that's not perfectly straight. :D I should mention that I use many compact fluorescent lights that have their own delay, so maybe were used to a delay. I'd say the delay is probably less than a 1/2 second, so yes its there, but not a real problen. The SA switches make a pretty load click (which I really don't like) but it does tell you it was pressed. If the switch didn't click, it might have been more a problem.
 
with the exception of the SA remote switches. I don’t recommend those. There plastic, bend, and the LED on them doesn’t even match the color or brightness of the regular switches. Plus, the LEDs on these switches are always on and green.


I also agree about the USR (remote) being pathetic, hopefully SAI will correct this in their next release.

For what it is worth, here is a little know fact. The remote switches avaliable from PCS and SA are the same as older x10 remote switches. I have checked with PCS and SA and confermed this. There is one difference to note: When using other brands of remote switches with SA switches the hot and the neutral need to be reversed on the remote. If you do not reverse the wires the remote will not work.

Dave
 
I tightened all my breaker screws. Some could turn up to about a 1/2 turn, but at least in my case, signal levels haven't noticably changed.
 
Did you check the neutrals and if you are brave the main feeders? We definitely found many neutrals very loose.
Dave
 
I'll recheck the neutrals. The main lines require a big insulated hex wrench, which I don't have.
 
Here is a bit more of an update. On the signal front, I tightened every neutral, ground, and breaker hot in my panel, and no change in signal. I also added a third inverting bridge from Simply Automated, and that has given me a respectible signal on both phases. On the opposite phase, the lowest at a signal now is 11, with most in the 15 - 19 range.

I'm really not sure why my house has such trouble getting the signal across phases. Its a pretty standard house, in a subdivision, maybe 150-200 ft. from the transformer.

The other update I have to report is on the Simply Automated remotes. I ripped them out and replaced each with a regular UPB switch, just not hooking the load wire to anything. Anthough my family went a bit crazy for a day until I had them all programmed (since pressing them did nothing) now that they are programmed, all is happy. I really like them because the LED status of these "remotes" now perfectly is in-sync with the lights. This is really nice when you have a row of switches, and you want to quickly turn off the two or three lights on without having to think about it. Its also nice because any "remote" can now be a remote to any switch in my house with just some minor programming. That's pretty neat.

Some day, I could imagine a time where ALL switches in a home are just wired to power, and all lights use a fixture module. Then every switch in your home could be virtual, and reprogrammed to control any light.

And, to answer the next question, do these "remote" switches have any longer delays then a regular switch? The answer is no. I'm not using any controller in the middle, I'm just using "links." In UPB, that's pretty fast. I think you would be hard-pressed to detect a difference in speed of a remote switch to that of the actual switch. If there is a difference, its very slight.
 
I'm in the process of installing the SA UPB in my house. About 35 switches already installed and another 35 to go. I had an electrician come by and assist with some of the 3-ways and give me some advice. He stated that these dimmers are pretty big and take up a lot of space in the boxes. He went to say that the heat that could build up in the 3 and 4 gang boxes could be substantial. We discussed the de-rating of the dimmers, but he still had some concerns.

Now "I'M" concerned. Has anyone had any issues with this? Any C10 contractors with experience in this that can offer some advice? Some of these boxes are pretty jammed with 14GA. Frankly I'm surprised it all fits in some of these boxes. The last thing I want is to come home to a black house because I wanted to enjoy some technological conveniences. Thoughts?
 
One of the reasons I went with Insteon was their smaller volume so less crowding in the box.

Insteon has its own headaches that dont need repeating.
 
On thing I found was that some of the GFI duplexes have relays that make poor contact. They will work for AC, but X10 and others won't pass through.

The solution is to replace the GFI with a new one or try and cycle the
relay about 50 times.

This was the source of several of my intermittents.

Cliff s
 
spottingjonah said:
I'm in the process of installing the SA UPB in my house. About 35 switches already installed and another 35 to go.
That is a lot of switches at about $60 a pop your looking at about $4200 just for some light swiches! ah the joys of modern marvels!
 
spottingjonah said:
I'm in the process of installing the SA UPB in my house. About 35 switches already installed and another 35 to go. I had an electrician come by and assist with some of the 3-ways and give me some advice. He stated that these dimmers are pretty big and take up a lot of space in the boxes. He went to say that the heat that could build up in the 3 and 4 gang boxes could be substantial. We discussed the de-rating of the dimmers, but he still had some concerns.

Now "I'M" concerned. Has anyone had any issues with this? Any C10 contractors with experience in this that can offer some advice? Some of these boxes are pretty jammed with 14GA. Frankly I'm surprised it all fits in some of these boxes. The last thing I want is to come home to a black house because I wanted to enjoy some technological conveniences. Thoughts?
Welcome to CocoonTech! What is in those boxes - do the 3 or 4 gang boxes have ALL US240's in them, or just 1 or 2 with other switches? Its funny because I had an electrician tell me when I warned him they were big say, 'those aren't that big, I've installed bigger'. They are on par I think with regular dimmers from my experience.

But anyway, I think as long as you follow the derating info and the switches physically fit in the box and all connections are sound and tight you should not have any problems. Try to turn all the switches in the box on both full and say around half and feel the screws in the plate. Are they cool, warm or hot to the touch? If they are cool, warm or even just slightly hot you should be fine. I have had just a single regular dimmer HOT but yet I have 2 US240's side by side and they are just slightly warm - depends on your loads, etc.
 
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