Need clarification on the Elk-M1G-Insteon bundle

[Xpendable]

I'm a little bit confused about the ELK-M1G bundle sold here:
http://www.automatedoutlet.com/product.php...=376&page=1
or here:
http://www.smarthome.com/128301i.html

Which battery is included in this bundle? It doesn't appear to be shown in the pictures, but it does say a battery is included. The other Elk bundles show a big black battery. Is it the same battery? Or is it some weaker model? Should I be buying a separate battery?

And do I need this?
Elk-P624 - 6 , 12 , or 24 Volt DC Power Supply & Battery Charger
http://www.automatedoutlet.com/product.php...=161&page=1

Since I'm going to be buying several other modules, would it be better to just go ahead and buy the ELK-SWB28 28" can and ignore the 14" can, or should I buy the base M1GSYS4 and all the stuff that's in the Insteon bundle separately? Here's what I think I will be buying so far:

INSTEON-Compatible M1 Gold System w/Flush-Mount Keypad
ELK-M1XEP - M1 Ethernet Port Interface
ELK Outdoor Horn Siren 120db
Elk Strobe Light, Clear
Wall Mount Kit For Elk Strobe Light
ELK-M1XEP - M1 Ethernet Port Interface
ELK-M1DBH - Data Bus Hub (Optional)
ELK-M1ZTS - Zone Temp Sensor
ELK-M1BBK2 - Recess Mount Back Box Kit for M1-KP2
ELK-M1TWK - M1 Two Way Listen-in KIT
38Stubby-10 - 3/8" Magnetic Stubby Reed Switch - 10 Pack
PS-2023 - Garage Door Magnetic Contact Sensor - Normally Closed
FSA410BST - FSA410 DSC Smoke Sensor, 4-Wire Photoelectric, Thermal & Sounder
K9-85 85lb Pet-Immune Hardwired Motion Sensor x4
ELK-M1KPAS - M1 Arming Station
ELK-M1XIN - M1 16 Zone Input Expander

Other stuff that I might buy:
Round Acoustic Glass Break, 25' Radius
GRI-2800 - Water Sensor
Sentrol 240-COE Hardwire Carbon Monoxide Detector
ELK-M1TWS - M1 Two Way Speaker/Microphone

Other questions:

Anybody know if the Visonic K9-85 PIR is any good? Smarthome lists it for $59 and states that it's dual-technology w/microwave, but Automated Outlet lists the same part number but makes no mention of it having dual-technology. And Automated Outlet has it for less than half the price. Not sure if it's the same product or not, even though the part number appears to be the same.

Do I need to get an EOL relay for the 4-wire smoke detectors above?

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[Steve]

The bundles come with the 8ah battery, Elk-1280 which is probably more than sufficient for your needs.

Why do you think you need a P-624? You only need an additional power supply and battery if you have more current draw than the base M1 can supply. I usually baseline that around 1A. Usually the siren is the killer but that siren is only 400ma so as long as you don't have alot of other stuff on there, you should be good with the stock. You can always check your current draw when hooked up and can always add additional power later, but you want a 12V supply, not 24.

I've said before, SWC's (enclosure) are like hard drives - buy the biggest one you can fit and afford - you will fill them up quickly, especially if laying out nicely and doing good wire management. I would get the kit, then just buy a larger can - consider the 42" or 50". You can always use the 14" as a power can or something later.

No experience with that Visonic PIR, but it does not appear to be true dual tech, just some marketing type stuff - check the Visonic web site directly. Smarthome always sells at full retail, you can almost always find better pricing elsewhere. Even 1/2 may not be crazy depending on part, etc.

Yes, you need EOL for 4 wire smokes.

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

Yes, in addition, if you want a different keypad that is listed in the package, we'll swap it out for you at no additional cost.

 

[Xpendable]

Why do you think you need a P-624? You only need an additional power supply and battery if you have more current draw than the base M1 can supply. I usually baseline that around 1A. Usually the siren is the killer but that siren is only 400ma so as long as you don't have alot of other stuff on there, you should be good with the stock. You can always check your current draw when hooked up and can always add additional power later, but you want a 12V supply, not 24.

Okay, cool. I didn't know. I came across it while looking at the batteries and started wondering if it was something I needed.

I've said before, SWC's (enclosure) are like hard drives - buy the biggest one you can fit and afford - you will fill them up quickly, especially if laying out nicely and doing good wire management. I would get the kit, then just buy a larger can - consider the 42" or 50". You can always use the 14" as a power can or something later.

Well I think 50" will definitely be overkill for my 1900 sf house. I could see maybe getting the 42". I wonder what my wife will think... Best not to tell her, lol...

Yes, you need EOL for 4 wire smokes.

Thanks.

 

[Xpendable]

Yes, in addition, if you want a different keypad that is listed in the package, we'll swap it out for you at no additional cost.

Thanks, good to know, although the M1-KP2 is actually the keypad we want.

I was looking at wiring, and didn't see the "fire" wire for the 4-wire smoke detectors. Do I need to get that somewhere else?

 

[LaurentR]

Note that some 4-wire smokes have the EOL relay built-in, like the GE ESL 541NCSXTE


The 28" can actually store a lot of gear if you pack it tight. Much more than what you're describing.
In mine, I have:
- M1G
- M1XEP
- Two M1XSP (Uplink + Zwave)
- M1DBH
- PD9HC
- Doorbell detectors ELK930 and a few relays ELK912B
- M1TWA
- ELK955 (RJ38X + surge suppressor)
- M1RB (mounted vertically).
and I have an extra empty SWP3.

I use the original 14" can for a P412 supply and the M1G battery.

Laurent

 

[Xpendable]

and I have an extra empty SWP3.

Do I need a SWP3 for each expansion board?

I'm thinking about doing a 42" Leviton enclosure. I saw pictures of one here that somebody had (can't remember who) and he had several large mounting plates that held various Elk expansions. I'm trying to find out what those were and what the part numbers are. What do I really need if I'm going to use an enclosure like this?

 

[AO-Brandon]

unless you are like me ... then it can hold very little ...

 

[LaurentR]

Do I need a SWP3 for each expansion board?

If you use the Elk enclosures, they have holes for SWP and SWP3 (one column on the left, one on the right). Most ELK boards fit aa SWP3, and if they don't, you can always drill a SWP. That's what I ended up doing. It makes reorganizing easier. People in Leviton enclosure tend to use horizontal mounting bars (I have no experience with those).

Laurent