Need help figuring my home automation
- Thread starter fxs158
- Start date
I am at the beginning stages of my home automation project, I have not decided on what all to get yet but have some ideas. I want to automate my whole house, so far I have purchased 6 1000 rolls of cat 6 and enough speaker wire to do the house. I am going to be using a closet "in the laundry room" to install racks etc. I have been doing tons of reading and although I am not sure of what I want, I know what would not work for me. Control 4 will not work for me, crestron will not work for me either as the learning curve seems to be steep. So I have been considering HAI and ELk for security and maybe CQC to tie all in.
I am not sure how this all works, I am hoping to get recommendations based on what I want.
1- I want complete video distribution, 2 dish network receivers, cable, blue ray player, xbox 360, some kind of media player. What video switcher should I been looking at? I think I will be using component more than hdmi "my dishnetwork receiver has never worked with hdmi
2- I want audio distribution for the whole house, total of 9 to 10 zones. One zone will have surround, I recently purchased the Denon 3808CI I want to be able to use it, it says that it can do multiple zones, can I integrate the multiple zones into an audio switcher? What audio switcher should I been looking at? I checked nuvo grand concerto but not sure if this is what I need. I would like to have wireless touch pads in each bedroom, do i need the music keypads with nuvo? Will this keypad be able to access mp3 songs stored in a drive?
3- what do I need at my closet, what kind of panels to put the wires? who sells affordable racks?
4- for lighting I think I will use lutron.
I know there are many questions here, please help me!
I am not sure how this all works, I am hoping to get recommendations based on what I want.
1- I want complete video distribution, 2 dish network receivers, cable, blue ray player, xbox 360, some kind of media player. What video switcher should I been looking at? I think I will be using component more than hdmi "my dishnetwork receiver has never worked with hdmi
2- I want audio distribution for the whole house, total of 9 to 10 zones. One zone will have surround, I recently purchased the Denon 3808CI I want to be able to use it, it says that it can do multiple zones, can I integrate the multiple zones into an audio switcher? What audio switcher should I been looking at? I checked nuvo grand concerto but not sure if this is what I need. I would like to have wireless touch pads in each bedroom, do i need the music keypads with nuvo? Will this keypad be able to access mp3 songs stored in a drive?
3- what do I need at my closet, what kind of panels to put the wires? who sells affordable racks?
4- for lighting I think I will use lutron.
I know there are many questions here, please help me!
pete_c
Guru
I put one panel in the laundry room closet in FL. A rack in the Laundry would have driven WAF down. The primary intent of said closet is for my wife's laundry room nic nak storage. The contractor put wire shelves inside of the closet. I put one panels inside (media). I cut away the back of the wire shelving so that the wire shelves still fit inside of the closet. This makes it blend but makes it difficult to service. IE: I have to remove all of the items on the shelves, remove the wire shelves before I have access to the front of the panels. I am putting a second security cabinet above the first one.
Inside of the media cabinet (Leviton 28") I ran all the CAT5 Telephone and computer cable to a Leviton punch down. I also installed the FIOS router inside of said cabinet. Above and to the right of the media cablinet I installed a Linksys WRT-54GL DD-WRT router. (tight but it fit) In addition all the rooms were wired for sound (two speakers) and I ran the wires to this media cablinet. In addition ran RG6 from all the rooms to this cabinet. For HD I plan on using the "extra" CAT 5 runs. For the media center located in the family room I ran multiple wires: Speakers, cat5, RG6. The 28" panel is a bit congested verses the 42" panel that I have installed in the MW. BUT it looks ascetically pleasing.
Initially had Direct-TV and wired RG-6 from the Multiplexer behind the dish to the panel. Once in the panel you can take it to any receiver located in any room with RG-6. I have since switched over to FIOS and still using base wiring for the FIOS receivers. I also ran extra RG-6's from the service entrance side of the house to the panel to cover for cable, antenna, spare in case there was a need. Today I am using the antenna feed for HD and the spare for the FIOS feed to the FIOS router.
I was lucky that the builder gave me 3-4 days before putting in the drywall to be able to cable.
Inside of the media cabinet (Leviton 28") I ran all the CAT5 Telephone and computer cable to a Leviton punch down. I also installed the FIOS router inside of said cabinet. Above and to the right of the media cablinet I installed a Linksys WRT-54GL DD-WRT router. (tight but it fit) In addition all the rooms were wired for sound (two speakers) and I ran the wires to this media cablinet. In addition ran RG6 from all the rooms to this cabinet. For HD I plan on using the "extra" CAT 5 runs. For the media center located in the family room I ran multiple wires: Speakers, cat5, RG6. The 28" panel is a bit congested verses the 42" panel that I have installed in the MW. BUT it looks ascetically pleasing.
Initially had Direct-TV and wired RG-6 from the Multiplexer behind the dish to the panel. Once in the panel you can take it to any receiver located in any room with RG-6. I have since switched over to FIOS and still using base wiring for the FIOS receivers. I also ran extra RG-6's from the service entrance side of the house to the panel to cover for cable, antenna, spare in case there was a need. Today I am using the antenna feed for HD and the spare for the FIOS feed to the FIOS router.
I was lucky that the builder gave me 3-4 days before putting in the drywall to be able to cable.
fabriziojoe
Active Member
I am at the beginning stages of my home automation project, I have not decided on what all to get yet but have some ideas. I want to automate my whole house, so far I have purchased 6 1000 rolls of cat 6 and enough speaker wire to do the house. I am going to be using a closet "in the laundry room" to install racks etc. I have been doing tons of reading and although I am not sure of what I want, I know what would not work for me. Control 4 will not work for me, crestron will not work for me either as the learning curve seems to be steep. So I have been considering HAI and ELk for security and maybe CQC to tie all in.
I am not sure how this all works, I am hoping to get recommendations based on what I want.
1- I want complete video distribution, 2 dish network receivers, cable, blue ray player, xbox 360, some kind of media player. What video switcher should I been looking at? I think I will be using component more than hdmi "my dishnetwork receiver has never worked with hdmi
2- I want audio distribution for the whole house, total of 9 to 10 zones. One zone will have surround, I recently purchased the Denon 3808CI I want to be able to use it, it says that it can do multiple zones, can I integrate the multiple zones into an audio switcher? What audio switcher should I been looking at? I checked nuvo grand concerto but not sure if this is what I need. I would like to have wireless touch pads in each bedroom, do i need the music keypads with nuvo? Will this keypad be able to access mp3 songs stored in a drive?
3- what do I need at my closet, what kind of panels to put the wires? who sells affordable racks?
4- for lighting I think I will use lutron.
I know there are many questions here, please help me!
Hello-
I found this forum a little late, but there is a ton of useful information available-check out the wiki.
I am currently running an HAI Omni Pro II controller. My install consisted of both new and old construction. Every window and door, interior and exterior, has a 22/4 running to it and terminated with the sensors with the EOL built in. In addition, the whole house is wired for 4 wire smoke detectors with the approved fire wire.
In my demarc I have 3 42" on-q panels and one 28" panel. In addition I have a full height Middle Atlantic rack with a smoked front door.
The first two panels house the HAI controller and the expansion boards along with the fob system. The third enclosure houses all of the phone and fios distribution equipment along with a battery backup for the router. The 28" panel houses all of the batteries for the panels-yes they take up a lot of room. The server rack houses the Nuvo Grand concerto equipment, 48 port patch panel, PC and mac desktops, kvm switch, monitor and 2 battery backup units.
Every room in the house has the following wires ran:
Television
4 RG6 Quad
4 Cat 6
Music
2-18/2 speaker wires
2 Cat 6
Security
2 cat 6-keypad and 1 for future
18/4-keypad
22/4 for all windows and doors
Selective Call Intercom
1 cat 6
1 18/4-just in case
Cameras
1 cat 6
1 siamese
Smoke
1 18/4 red
As far as video distribution I am currently in the process of designing a hdmi based system, but the price of a matrix switcher is crazy. I have been looking at Gefen and key digital.
I found my server rack on ebay for $125 and the shipping was another $125, but for $250 I think it was a good deal.
mustangcoupe
Senior Member
Check out Wiring_Your_New_House_101, Wiring_Your_New_House_102, Wiring_Your_New_House_103on the CT.Wiki for great information on getting started in home automation, and wiring.
Neurorad
Senior Member
My advice - be patient, enjoy the work, and the learning process.
You can use zone 2 of the 3808 for distributed audio - it's what I'm currently using for 7 zones, through an impedance matching speaker selector box, using old in-wall volume controls. It's worked well for a couple years, but now I've purchased a Nuvo Grand Concerto that I'm in the middle of installing. I particularly like streaming internet radio through the Denon, which I will lose with the Nuvo GC (hopefully I'll get this ~Jan with a Nuvo Music Port firmware upgrade).
I'm also going to use Lutron for lighting - RadioRa2 vs. HomeWorks QS, in a few selected rooms in the house, plus exterior lights.
I'm still undecided on the Elk M1 vs. HAI OPII - I'll decide when I'm ready to install. The dozen or so zones of distributed audio will keep me busy for the next few months. Then, it's lighting, and then security. Maybe the OPIII or M2 will be out by then - who knows.
In 2-3 years, I'll look at whole house control, for the multiple subsystems. CQC would be perfect for me.
Buy a cheap used 19" 4-post rack on Craigslist or ebay. Take your time, it will take a while to install your cabling.
Russound C-Series may be a good option for distributed audio and distributed video, though I haven't heard of anyone on CT using it for video.
I wouldn't call this a 'home automation project', if I were you. Break it down into multiple projects, as it will take a good year (or more) to learn the basics, choose your equipment, and get it installed. Steep learning curves ahead - I'm trying to choose proven methods to limit frustrations. Avoid the exciting 'bleeding edge' of new stuff (unless you're into that).
Access to the back of the rack is a necessity, get one on wheels or one that slides.
You'll need an enclosure, or piece of plywood, on the closet wall, for the security controller and associated modules/devices.
Buy your ticket, enjoy the ride, and welcome to CT.
Buyer beware - expensive hobby.
Neurorad
You can use zone 2 of the 3808 for distributed audio - it's what I'm currently using for 7 zones, through an impedance matching speaker selector box, using old in-wall volume controls. It's worked well for a couple years, but now I've purchased a Nuvo Grand Concerto that I'm in the middle of installing. I particularly like streaming internet radio through the Denon, which I will lose with the Nuvo GC (hopefully I'll get this ~Jan with a Nuvo Music Port firmware upgrade).
I'm also going to use Lutron for lighting - RadioRa2 vs. HomeWorks QS, in a few selected rooms in the house, plus exterior lights.
I'm still undecided on the Elk M1 vs. HAI OPII - I'll decide when I'm ready to install. The dozen or so zones of distributed audio will keep me busy for the next few months. Then, it's lighting, and then security. Maybe the OPIII or M2 will be out by then - who knows.
In 2-3 years, I'll look at whole house control, for the multiple subsystems. CQC would be perfect for me.
Buy a cheap used 19" 4-post rack on Craigslist or ebay. Take your time, it will take a while to install your cabling.
Russound C-Series may be a good option for distributed audio and distributed video, though I haven't heard of anyone on CT using it for video.
I wouldn't call this a 'home automation project', if I were you. Break it down into multiple projects, as it will take a good year (or more) to learn the basics, choose your equipment, and get it installed. Steep learning curves ahead - I'm trying to choose proven methods to limit frustrations. Avoid the exciting 'bleeding edge' of new stuff (unless you're into that).
Access to the back of the rack is a necessity, get one on wheels or one that slides.
You'll need an enclosure, or piece of plywood, on the closet wall, for the security controller and associated modules/devices.
Buy your ticket, enjoy the ride, and welcome to CT.
Buyer beware - expensive hobby.
Neurorad
Thanks for the warm welcome! I just realized I made a mistake on my surround sound receiver, the one I have is the Denon 4308CI I should still work correct? So with the Nuvo I will not be able to use the Denon receiver as a source? Man that would suck as I made this purchase about 3 months ago.
Neurorad
Senior Member
You can absolutely use the Denon as a source (at least I don't see why not).
The biggest drawback is that you won't see the station/song/artist info (metadata) at the keypads. If you just tune into 1 or 2 internet radio stations all the time, I don't see it as a big deal, especially if you have a PC nearby with the playlist, for when you have to know the name of a song.
Programming the Nuvo for the AVR may be tricky, but I think it's done commonly. Sharing the AVR with the home theater (only using zone 2 as a source for the Nuvo) will be more challenging, as the Denon AVR's are...tricky, as I'm sure you are now aware.
I think it will be a lot easier to use Nuvo component for sources - try the 4308 for a year, see how it goes.
There are literally more than 20 different major audio distribution systems that you could consider.
You said you want wireless 'touchpads' in each room, for audio. The wireless Nuvo keypads are pretty expensive - I'm considering only 1. You should check out Sonos - metadata on the wireless touchscreen keypads (CR200, $350 MSRP), and use a charging cradle. One of the more affordable solutions. The Nuvo GC portable keypads are $800 MSRP. Even though you'll save a ton of money installing yourself, the hardwire prices really add up.
The 4308 is a great AVR, for home theater. If you just want to run DA speakers directly from zone 2, it's fantastic. It's not really meant to be a source for a multisource DA system. I don't think it would be worth the programming frustrations.
It's kind of unusual that you bought your cable first, but it seems like you bought the right stuff, for most distributed audio systems (except Sonos). Is the speaker cable you purchased in-wall rated (CL-2)?
The biggest drawback is that you won't see the station/song/artist info (metadata) at the keypads. If you just tune into 1 or 2 internet radio stations all the time, I don't see it as a big deal, especially if you have a PC nearby with the playlist, for when you have to know the name of a song.
Programming the Nuvo for the AVR may be tricky, but I think it's done commonly. Sharing the AVR with the home theater (only using zone 2 as a source for the Nuvo) will be more challenging, as the Denon AVR's are...tricky, as I'm sure you are now aware.
I think it will be a lot easier to use Nuvo component for sources - try the 4308 for a year, see how it goes.
There are literally more than 20 different major audio distribution systems that you could consider.
You said you want wireless 'touchpads' in each room, for audio. The wireless Nuvo keypads are pretty expensive - I'm considering only 1. You should check out Sonos - metadata on the wireless touchscreen keypads (CR200, $350 MSRP), and use a charging cradle. One of the more affordable solutions. The Nuvo GC portable keypads are $800 MSRP. Even though you'll save a ton of money installing yourself, the hardwire prices really add up.
The 4308 is a great AVR, for home theater. If you just want to run DA speakers directly from zone 2, it's fantastic. It's not really meant to be a source for a multisource DA system. I don't think it would be worth the programming frustrations.
It's kind of unusual that you bought your cable first, but it seems like you bought the right stuff, for most distributed audio systems (except Sonos
). Is the speaker cable you purchased in-wall rated (CL-2)?
AnthonyZ
Active Member
I don't get it. Is your perceived problem in programming on the Nuvo side? Surely not the Denon. While the 4308's IR blind spot is ridiculously long (supposed to have been corrected via firmware update), all the commends are discrete. From an IR control standpoint (which is what the Nuvo would use), it's stupid easy. Of course, I strongly dislike the Nuvo line and thus have VERY limited exposure to the programming interface (I wanted to puke when I saw how they use a separate "dongle" for IR input, dumb)
You can absolutely use the Denon as a source (at least I don't see why not).
The biggest drawback is that you won't see the station/song/artist info (metadata) at the keypads. If you just tune into 1 or 2 internet radio stations all the time, I don't see it as a big deal, especially if you have a PC nearby with the playlist, for when you have to know the name of a song.
Programming the Nuvo for the AVR may be tricky, but I think it's done commonly. Sharing the AVR with the home theater (only using zone 2 as a source for the Nuvo) will be more challenging, as the Denon AVR's are...tricky, as I'm sure you are now aware.
I think it will be a lot easier to use Nuvo component for sources - try the 4308 for a year, see how it goes.
There are literally more than 20 different major audio distribution systems that you could consider.
You said you want wireless 'touchpads' in each room, for audio. The wireless Nuvo keypads are pretty expensive - I'm considering only 1. You should check out Sonos - metadata on the wireless touchscreen keypads (CR200, $350 MSRP), and use a charging cradle. One of the more affordable solutions. The Nuvo GC portable keypads are $800 MSRP. Even though you'll save a ton of money installing yourself, the hardwire prices really add up.
The 4308 is a great AVR, for home theater. If you just want to run DA speakers directly from zone 2, it's fantastic. It's not really meant to be a source for a multisource DA system. I don't think it would be worth the programming frustrations.
It's kind of unusual that you bought your cable first, but it seems like you bought the right stuff, for most distributed audio systems (except Sonos
The speaker cable was from mono price and it is CL-2 rated! I looked at sonos but did not think it had what I wanted. Essentially I want to listen to music and be able to play my other sources trough the speakers, tv, dvd etc... When I mentioned wireless pad what I was referring to was to a tablet pc that would allow me to control the whole house, so I was thinking about having one of those on each bedroom and control the music from there as oposed to having a separate music keypad. "Not sure is that is possible"
What system do you like? Basically I want to be able to play different radio stations or different mp3's in the bedrooms or if we are hosting a party I want to be able to set all the zones to play the same music etc...
Neurorad
Senior Member
The most popular wired DA systems are from Russound and Nuvo, IMO. Both have options to provide digital music sources e.g. mp3's, Rhapsody, internet radio. Make sure you include the source equipment when pricing. You can spend ~$2K for the Nuvo Music Port Server music server (coming this January), or less on the Music Port PC interface (currently only provides digital music files and not internet radio, firmware upgrade may fix this in the future).
If you want whole-house control of your subsystems, you'll have to learn how to set up the control system, eventually, so the steep learning curve will likely be a future challenge, regardless of your wishes.
If you take your time, and research the control systems now, then you can install subsystems that will integrate well with the control system (eventually).
Edit - here's a review of the Russound MCA-C5 (C Series) system that I came across today.
If you want whole-house control of your subsystems, you'll have to learn how to set up the control system, eventually, so the steep learning curve will likely be a future challenge, regardless of your wishes.
If you take your time, and research the control systems now, then you can install subsystems that will integrate well with the control system (eventually).
Edit - here's a review of the Russound MCA-C5 (C Series) system that I came across today.
