Need help with alarm panel wiring; just want to switch lines

[cshupe56]

Howdy, and thanks in advance for the d.i.y. newbie help...
I just had TW cable telephone service installed at home on my line #1, formerly Verizon pots, and of course the tech expediently backfed the dial tone from the modem into the nearest rj11 jack. Now my ademco alarm panel hooked up to line #1 cannot communicate with the monitoring station.
I also have a line #2 in the house. It is a Verizon DSL line, with filters at each phone location. I purchased a DSL filter for the RJ31X jack in the alarm box, which was no help connecting the alarm to line #1.
Now I would like to connect the RJ31X to my line #2. In conjunction with the new DSL filter, the alarm should call out fine....I hope.
Which wires do I change in the RJ31X? I think other pairs are available at that location, but I will need to check when I get home tonite. I will also post which colors are connected now. Won't this be my easiest solution? We need the alarm monitoring.

 

[CollinR]

Okay first off I'm confused...

Ideally you would rewire the TW cable back to the demarc undoing what the dipsh!t did.

Okay so you still have Verizon POTS service coming in on line#2

At your demarc you should be able to find the red and green wires connected to the incoming line 1 (probably unplugged). This should run back to the red/green terminals on your RJ31x. Swicth these two wires to the tip and ring on line#2. You should also see the return wiring connected to all of the drops inside the house. You will need to keep this connected to line 1, removing only the wires running to the alarm. Disconnect the line 2 drops from the demark and connect that where line 1's were. Make sure and tell your central station you have changed your phone number. Send test signals from all your zones.

All the wiring you need to do should take place at the demarc where both line 1 and line 2 are present but line 2 comes into the house. As mentioned you should do it right or have TW come back and do it right by running the wires to the demarc.

Optionally you can wire aftrer the RJ31x but before it travels back to the demarc the DSL modem and a single line filter, thus allowing you to not have filters on all the rest of your phone jacks.

Now my question is why have both digital and POTS service from 2 service providers? Me personally I would just get an alarmnet account and add a communicator to the system completely bypassing phone communications altogther. This way you can use whatever service you want, even a majicjack or dockntalk and not worry about your signals getting out clearly.

 

[cshupe56]

Okay first off I'm confused...

Ideally you would rewire the TW cable back to the demarc undoing what the dipsh!t did.

Okay so you still have Verizon POTS service coming in on line#2

At your demarc you should be able to find the red and green wires connected to the incoming line 1 (probably unplugged). This should run back to the red/green terminals on your RJ31x. Swicth these two wires to the tip and ring on line#2. You should also see the return wiring connected to all of the drops inside the house. You will need to keep this connected to line 1, removing only the wires running to the alarm. Disconnect the line 2 drops from the demark and connect that where line 1's were. Make sure and tell your central station you have changed your phone number. Send test signals from all your zones.

All the wiring you need to do should take place at the demarc where both line 1 and line 2 are present but line 2 comes into the house. As mentioned you should do it right or have TW come back and do it right by running the wires to the demarc.

Optionally you can wire aftrer the RJ31x but before it travels back to the demarc the DSL modem and a single line filter, thus allowing you to not have filters on all the rest of your phone jacks.

Now my question is why have both digital and POTS service from 2 service providers? Me personally I would just get an alarmnet account and add a communicator to the system completely bypassing phone communications altogther. This way you can use whatever service you want, even a majicjack or dockntalk and not worry about your signals getting out clearly.

Thanks for the reply. I've gone home and looked again at the alarm box.
The wife needs dsl to run verizon iobi, and she controls her calls at her dell online using wireless from a dsl modem. The house broadband is dsl, and we are happy with that. The verizon pots dsl line (#2) should be fine to connect to the monitor station, provided I use the new dsl filter. Yes, the phone number will change.
Line #1 is connected at the alarm panel RJ31x with a 2-pair homerun cable, using red black green and yellow. They are connected red-red, green-green, yellow-brown and black to grey at the 31x. The wire from the 31x to the alarm panel is a 4-pair modular plug with pigtail, with 4 unused wires. Colors used at the panel are red, green, grey and brown on terminals 1 to 4 (from the right end of the bus).
You think the easiest flip over is to rewire this homerun cable at the demark? Looks like the second line is not available at the alarm box now, so I think you must be right. I don't suppose pictures of the box and wires would help?

 

[CollinR]

Yes pics would help.

 

[Steve]

I can't be 100% sure because anything is possible but I am guessing the red/green incoming pair was your line 1 which is now dead and the yellow/black is your line 2 and still active. I would swap the red/green and yellow/black in the RJ31x and if I am right and line 2 is on yellow/black then it should work. Of course, if you have the tools you could verify that first. And you are aware that there are special DSL filters for RJ31x, right?

 

[CollinR]

Steve that wouldn't work for most installs. The red/green is the incoming tip/ring from the CO and the black/yellow is the outgoing back to the house wiring. All 4 of those wires are the same phone line just red/green is ahead of the line seizure and black/yellow is after.

You would be correct if this wasn't running to an RJ31x for alarm use. Normal phone jacks inside the house are wired as you discribe.


True dat on the special DSL filters for RJ31x, it's not a regular filter but regular filters shouldn't insert correctly anyway.

 

[Steve]

You could be right, depending on how its all wired. Just thought I'd throw it out there as an option. If its used that way then yes you would have to flip the pairs at the NID (demarc where wheres come into house).

 

[cshupe56]

Steve that wouldn't work for most installs. The red/green is the incoming tip/ring from the CO and the black/yellow is the outgoing back to the house wiring. All 4 of those wires are the same phone line just red/green is ahead of the line seizure and black/yellow is after.

You would be correct if this wasn't running to an RJ31x for alarm use. Normal phone jacks inside the house are wired as you discribe.


True dat on the special DSL filters for RJ31x, it's not a regular filter but regular filters shouldn't insert correctly anyway.

The filter I got is an Excelsus z-a431pj31x-a DSL Alarm Filter that fits the RJ31x and has a short mod cable with the proper connector to install between the RJ and the alarm panel pigtail. It should do the trick.
I need to get outside and open up the demark box to take a look. Good thing it's 72 degrees and sunny outside here today at noon (!). For me, identifying the home run to the alarm box will be the most difficult task, as I have no tone generator. I may try a 9v battery and a test light...

 

[CollinR]

Nope the alarm lead will be the one that runs directly to the line 1 incoming poles red/green and it's black/yellow connecting to the line 1 house wiring. Once you look at it in the box it should become rather obvious as to what you need to do.

 

[cshupe56]

Nope the alarm lead will be the one that runs directly to the line 1 incoming poles red/green and it's black/yellow connecting to the line 1 house wiring. Once you look at it in the box it should become rather obvious as to what you need to do.

Well, I took a look at the service entrance. Nice 6-line demark box with covers for lines 1, 2 and 3. There are four screws inside each cover: upper left, brass; upper right, black; bottom left, green; bottom right, copper colored.
Inside the line 1 cover: red and green wires snipped off at the screws. So the cable phone installer has already changed the alarm wiring.
Inside the line 2 cover: two white with orange stripe wires on the green screw; two orange with white stripe wires on the copper screw.

The alarm home run cable is easy to locate. It's spliced to other wires in two loops inside the box:
alarm red wire is now spliced to 2 green with white stripe wires;
alarm green wire is spliced to 2 white with green stripe wires;
alarm yellow wire is spliced to 2 blue with white stripe wires;
alarm black wire is spliced to 2 white with blue stripe wires.

I tell you, the sloppy work I see in these wiring locations and it's a wonder we have phone service at all.
Any ideas how to move the four alarm wires around to get them on line 2?

 

[CollinR]

First call your central station and have them put your account on test.
Second take a digital still of the box

Okay now:
2 Orange wires and connect them to the alarm's yellow wire
Recrimp the 2 Green wires on Line 1 back togther
2 White with orange go to the alarm's black wire
Recrimp the 2 White/Green back togther
Alarm Red wire to the Line 2 copper screw
Recrimp the Blue's togther
Alarm Green wire to the Line 2 green screw
Recrimp the White/Blue togther

So basically you have left Line 1 as it was BUT disconnecting the alarm's wire altogther.
Connected the alarm's red/green to the posts on the demarc.
Connected the wires that were connected to the Line 2 posts to the alarm's black and yellow.
Pickup a line 2 phone and trip a zone, the duress code works well for this. The phone should go dead instantly.
Set off the alarm as many ways as it can be.

Call the central station and verify they recieved all your zones.

Drink a beer you are done.

 

[cshupe56]

First call your central station and have them put your account on test.
Second take a digital still of the box

Okay now:
2 Orange wires and connect them to the alarm's yellow wire
Recrimp the 2 Green wires on Line 1 back togther
2 White with orange go to the alarm's black wire
Recrimp the 2 White/Green back togther
Alarm Red wire to the Line 2 copper screw
Recrimp the Blue's togther
Alarm Green wire to the Line 2 green screw
Recrimp the White/Blue togther

So basically you have left Line 1 as it was BUT disconnecting the alarm's wire altogther.
Connected the alarm's red/green to the posts on the demarc.
Connected the wires that were connected to the Line 2 posts to the alarm's black and yellow.
Pickup a line 2 phone and trip a zone, the duress code works well for this. The phone should go dead instantly.
Set off the alarm as many ways as it can be.

Call the central station and verify they recieved all your zones.

Drink a beer you are done.

Thanks for the attempt, but that arrangement did not work for me.
That put the 2 white with orange stripe wires, the alarm black and the alarm green onto the green screw in the line 2 section.
That put the 2 orange with white stripe wires, the alarm red and the alarm yellow onto the copper screw in the line 2 section.
Result was no dial tone on line 2 phones.
Any other ideas? Do we use the black or brass screws in the line 2 section for anything?

 

[cshupe56]

How does this sound:
Add the alarm black wire to the 2 white with orange stripe wires on the demark green screw (lower left position).
Add the alarm yellow wire to the 2 orange with white stripe wires on the demark copper screw (lower right position).
Add the alarm red wire to where? Add the alarm green wire to where? The two upper screws on the demark (left, brass; right, black) are currently vacant.
A beer would be pretty nice right now!

 

[CollinR]

Reread the red and green wires go to the screw terminals on the demarc, that means the incoming phone service for line 2 goes directy to the alarm panel without anything else connected. Returning from the alarm panel is the black and yellow which connect to the orange and white/orange that supply line to the interior phone jacks.

 

[cshupe56]

Reread the red and green wires go to the screw terminals on the demarc, that means the incoming phone service for line 2 goes directy to the alarm panel without anything else connected. Returning from the alarm panel is the black and yellow which connect to the orange and white/orange that supply line to the interior phone jacks.

Okay, now this makes sense to me. Removing the existing wires from the posts at the demark does the trick.
I take it the dsl filter will act only on the signal that goes to the alarm panel, that the 31x will pass the signal thru back to the phone loop unless the line is seized...is that how that works?
I will try this arrangement today and let you know. Then a beer.