Need help with own control system at my home

[rbrus]

Hi,
like my topic said I want to build my own control system at home.
It will be a gift for my parents on their anniversary. So i have limitet budget.
I want to build couple of boards alone I don't want buy any ready boards becouse like I suppose that willbe expensive.
First I need to choose technologii and I'm thinking about Zigbee, which is wireless technology what is good for my plan.
So far I borrowed and tested Texas Instruments CC2530 and CC2531 boards but I didn't like their code, it's not clearly for me. And when I tested them on open field I get from 60 to max 100meters with amplifier. It's not too much. When I go inside I get only 15~25meters of range between two or mayby three walls. This was with some strange settings which TI doesn't recommended. I think that TI would be useless for me.
Next I borrowed from other company two boards with xBee Modules, they are okey, controlling them is quite easy, but I suppose that cheaper would be build my own board than buy a ready modules.
I don't know it but I am thinking about ST solutions, they have ready zigbee modules, but too, they have RF microcontroller supporting zigbee's protocols, which with elements will be cheaper then ready module.
This what I want to control in my home:
1) Light
2) Blinds
3) Car door, gate
4) Garage door
5) Air condition
6) Get information about outdoor temperature and insolation

What You think about it?
Greetings.

 

[tmbrown97]

I hate to be the one to rain on your parade, but I think it's a horrible idea - especially to give to someone else. A home-built product means you personally have to maintain it and add any/all features; and it adds zero value to the home since no future owners can work on it. Not to mention you're almost guaranteed to violate electrical code along the way if you plan on having any control over lights or appliances.

There are plenty of off-the-shelf solutions that do what you're looking for - and they'll continue to evolve/mature regardless of your schedule. If you get hit by a bus, there is a support system all over the world to maintain it.

The wheel has not only been invented already, but it's been perfected by thousands of engineers well beyond whatever you'll come up with on your first attempt. The markup is minimal for what you're getting because it's spread across hundreds of thousands of devices.

Look at a simple or even open-source controller such as premise; or even Mi Casa Verde; integrate that with something like Z-Wave for lights and thermostats; garage control is easy with any such protocol, as is exterior temperature, blinds, and garage doors.

If you're not prepared to spend a few hundred bucks - $500-$1K, it's time to start looking for more practical anniversary presents.

 

[chedemefedeme]

When the system is actually for use by someone other than yourself it seems like there's a risk to doing something completely DIY like this unless you really really know what you're doing. I'm a big advocate of DIY and have done some crazy stuff in my house using a variety of systems (including zigbee modules..they're cool!) but in my parent's home? I did a nice polished system.

I have three arguments for going with real, commercial products in someone else's home:

1) If you're going to burn down your home that's one thing, but someone else's is a real shame. Not saying you would do this and it is not too likely, but custom electronics controlling line voltage lights and appliances always run this risk because you don't likely have the budget for UL, or even extensive in house, testing.

2) If it breaks down, you've got to come fool with it. There is going to be more instances where a DIY from scratch system hits problems like this than a commercial solution. Think of when you move out/away and something goes wrong and you've got a relay sitting in between power and the lights in the main room. Many commercial products have already gone through the engineering to have elegant and completely simple overrides that could be a lot more trouble for you to work into your system.

3) Polish. A nice gift should have it!


I really say all of this cautiously because again, I advocate DIY so much. Custom designed solutions in one's own home can be one of the most satisfying and fun hobby projects out there...but for someone else's home I'd really recommend you not reinvent the wheel.

Is it just about cost? If it is I really think it may be hard for you to beat the quality and value of a commercial unit such as an insteon (or heck, even an x10) module. They have a surprising level of redundancy, fault protection, and safety features designed onboard that, thanks to mass manufacturing, would cost more for you to implement from scratch. I mean...a zigbee radio for a DIY project on its own costs more than most x10 modules and even some Insteon modules.

Say you breadboard your own remote control system that triggers a relay - this is pretty simple. Say you even built in override for local control if your radio protocol fails and someone just wants to turn on the dang light. You can probably do all of this for cheaper than a basic module for x10 or insteon (~$25). Now you've got to find a way to etch it onto a circuit board, test that circuit board for safety at voltage (or even more) than you'll be sending through it, and above all else build it into an enclosure you can put elegantly inside a wall switch or discreetely in a corner for control of a table lamp or appliance.

By the time you do all of the above it is highly likely you've spent more than $25 in parts and 200% likely you've spent way way more time.

If it's just about cost - you don't wanna buy them a slightly more expensive commercial solution that just works - I suggest you just save up a bit more. I did this for my parents last year. Bought them a set of insteon stuff for several hundred dollars. They love it.

If you really wanna DIY it from scratch...you'll learn a lot and you SHOULD spend time playing with it. To DIY and hack is to learn immensely. It isn't that you shouldn't do this if you want to. It's just that it should probably be for your own room/house than someone else's.

Just my two cents. Not wanting to be negative or anything. Welcome to the forum!

 

[rbrus]

Hi again,
i will try to reply to your posts:
the final date, the day of anniversary is the second in July. I have a lot of time to test it, but if it will cost a couple times more doing it alone, it wont be great but in the future I want to build other system for my self. Second thing is that I love to program board (I'm programmer) and I want do it by my self do my own. I'm not an electronics engineer like you see, but for a half year I worked in company which deals with building devices and my responsibility was soldering elements on PCB boards. And I can say that in manual way I will make it corretly.
Next thing is that, when I have my board mayby with STM32W microcontroller i will add to board some relay to turn on the light and to switch off the light.
Second, if I need to use weather station I will "solder" it to the board which looks the same only without relay and control it using AT commands or other. Which comes cheaper for the future and funnier then buy big thing which will cost a lot and do one thing... show me only the temperature.
Problem will be with air condition and car gate but mayby when I will build my own board add there some IR receiver then I will get codes from pilot, then add there transmitter and use new codes to control air condition.

1) What you think about it?
2) Maybe, it is really without sense, and you can give me some advice which devices from what company will be good for my plan.

Regards

 

[rbrus]

However, if this would be a ready solution:
a ) are there any companies which sell devices that could be programmed by my self? For example with aforementioned ST microcontroller?
b ) And if don't ... what other companies in addition to MiCasaVerde are you recommend? Mostly I would think about wireless devices or devices connecting via PLC.

 

[chedemefedeme]

Again I recommend Insteon for its cross between functionality and price it is primarily PLC but also has higher end modules that are wireless + PLC. I've found these dual technology units do much better in large and/or electrically noisy homes where interference and range on PLC alone is a concern.

You can purchase a controller for Insteon that connects via serial and issue it commands from virtually any programming language you'd like. If you want the system to be fully embedded you could even speak to the insteon controller through an arduino or virtually any other rs-232 capable microcontroller platform.

I happen to use the Elk M1 to speak to my insteon controller for most purposes BUT i've written a few custom scripts in perl that I use to perform functionalities that the Elk can't do. It was a snap, lots of fun, and let me do a lot since I got to spend my time on my programming instead of reinventing the wheel of wireless/plc electric control.

 

[etc6849]

I use a PC based program called Premise which is free (see the links in my signature). It's pretty powerful and offers an SDK along with a remote Builder program for remotely configuring a system.

My setup is quasi custom. I rely on off the shelf components that are cheap and readily available. Some of the stuff I use is Global Cache IR controllers, Elk M1G, z-wave dimmers, switches, in-wall controllers and locks, X10 RF, etc...

If there isn't support for Premise, Premise users usually build a driver via Builder or via the Premise SDK (C++ or .Net). For example, several users have worked on a nice z-wave driver that uses Leviton's VRC0P +3 RS232 controller to control locks, lights, etc... The driver is open source, but as you probably know the z-wave protocol that the VRC0P bridges isn't that open (although if you google you can probably find the documentation you'd need).

 

[tmbrown97]

My advice sticks... buy off-the-shelf light switches and thermostats; if you want to rig a controller for the gate, that's about the easiest thing in the world. Unfortunately in your attempts to justify your qualifications, you've only shown that you must be younger and a bit inexperienced. There's a lot to be learned from age and experience - but you won't realize that until you've aged a bit ;-).

Automating your own lights is a BAD BAD BAD idea!!! Making relay boards makes no sense... you can use off-the-shelf controllable switches that have normal local interface and are controllable.

If you want to show your skill, do so in the control interface, not the circuit itself... using off-the-shelf lighting controllers and HVAC controllers, you can customize something like premise to your heart's content and have a years-long project just making nice interfaces.

If you try and do this the way you plan, you will fail miserably and catastrophically and only embarrass yourself and leave your parents in a worse state than if you'd never tried to do anything.

Off-topic... but it's obvious English isn't your primary language... are you in the US? Where are you from?

 

[rbrus]

Hi again,
Sorry for late entry but I had a Christmas break and I don't looked on the forum.
Yes, English isn't my primary language. I'm from Poland and I live here.
If we talking about my age if it is important I'm twenty six years old. But this what I'm doing now, what we taking about is not directly linked with my studies. I studied physics and I made master degree on System and network programming.
I always was interested in low-level programming and controling in all possible ways, so my parents gift wont be only thing which I planned to do.

Now I'm doing a small project to get more experiens with Zigbee, I build a small car which will be controled by zigbee evalution board. There is main board and USB dongle which will be my transmiter to steering this car from PC.
Back on earth, mayby using off-the-shell stuff won't be a bad idea. But which products of what company would You propose to me. On our market we don't have many dealers in this topic, however if something is, it will be very expensive becouse of dealers profit. I assume that would be cheaper to order devices from abroad on my own than buy it here. Therefore I decided to join Your forum, also because US is more developed country and I'm sure that You have a lot more experience on this field.

 

[tmbrown97]

There's a lot of good info around here... but it looks like your electrical system is 220/230V, so you can't use US devices; you can use european stuff though. I know there is lots of stuff available to you.

Just some quick examples: UPB for the european market:
http://www.homeauto.com/Products/HAIConnectivityPartners/pllc.asp

Or Z-Wave:
http://www.smarthome-products.com/s-56-z-wave-european.aspx

Z-Wave will probably be your best bet - there's a lot of compatibility between different devices, and you'll get to play more with the wireless interfaces. You can use off-the-shelf switches/controllers, and write your own interfaces to learn/extend the system.

 

[rbrus]

Yes 220/230V if we talking about PLC, but I'm the most interested in some wireless devices. Most of all I'm looking for some units which using zigbee protocol.

 

[tmbrown97]

1. Thermostats
2. Relays (for gate, blinds, garage doors, gate control)
3. Light Switches

 

[etc6849]

What Z-Wave controller should he use for an open system? Since the protocol is not available to the pubic and there is no VRC0P for Europe...

I like and use Z-Wave the most, but I'm in the US. I don't know what I'd do without the VRC0P's open protocol and ease of RS232 integration.

There's a lot of good info around here... but it looks like your electrical system is 220/230V, so you can't use US devices; you can use european stuff though. I know there is lots of stuff available to you.

Just some quick examples: UPB for the european market:
http://www.homeauto....rtners/pllc.asp

Or Z-Wave:
http://www.smarthome...e-european.aspx

Z-Wave will probably be your best bet - there's a lot of compatibility between different devices, and you'll get to play more with the wireless interfaces. You can use off-the-shelf switches/controllers, and write your own interfaces to learn/extend the system.

 

[electron]

There are many unknown-to-the-USA home automation protocols in use in Europe, with KNX being one of the more widely supported solutions, so I would take a look at those as well.

If you really want to go the ZigBee route, you definitely have some options, but I don't think you can do it cheap without compromising on safety/stability.

ZigBee Alliance has released the 'ZigBee Home Automation' specification, and I believe most of the biggest ZigBee chipset makers have a chip available (such as FreeScale and TI).

 

[rbrus]

Hi again,
I know Zigbee specification it was part of my master degree work. I know this topic in theoretic. I only test Texas Instruments boards SmartRF05, CC2531 and couple of CC2530 boards. But it's nothing much when you must buy new devices.

Work2Play

gave me cool links like you can see, but I wrote here becouse I want some opinions about different devices. Why should I buy thermostat calls A if B will be better. Why should I buy micasaverde central unit if other will be cheaper and faster.
I only ask about Yours opinion.