need input on whole house audio system

[harperjn]

I'm looking to set up a whole house audio system and would appreciate any tips/comments/approvals etc. My husband and I are not audiophiles; we would just use it for background music. It would mostly be mp3s off my PC or Pandora. I don't foresee us ever wanting to distribute video. I do not need a state-of-the-art system, but I don't want something that is cobbled together either. With that in mind, here are the requirements:

Zone 1 - Patio (use previously purchased outdoor speakers)
Zone 2 - Family Room - Will install new HT system in a year or two and would like to use 2 of those speakers for the audio. Can I use an A-B switch here to control source? Does it need to be impedance matching?
Zone 3 - Kitchen - stereo speaker, probably 2
Zone 4 - Living/Dining Room - Large open area that will need multiple speakers, should most likely be stereo speakers? could I connect more than 2 stereo speakers to 1 zone?
Zone 5 - Guest Bathroom - 1 stereo speaker
Zone 6 - Master Bed/Bath - not sure if speaker in bath, room is very small

Volume controls in zones

House plan:

The equipment will be housed in the office.

I like the idea of using stereo speakers instead of regular ones. Most of the rooms either don't have defined seating areas, or I want the flexibility to move my furniture around.

HTD MCA-66 is what I'm looking at getting.

Monoprice dual coil speakers

As I understand it Cat 5 is run to the keypad, and regular speaker wire from there to the speakers? /* ETA: Got it now, speaker wire from amp to speakers */

I'm unsure of the speaker quantity / placement in the living and dining rooms. I think stereo speakers would work best there, but I think I can only safely connect 2 of those to 1 zone. I'm not sure if 2 speakers would provide enough coverage for both rooms.

Is the overall system configuration okay, or is there a better/cheaper way to do this? Also, I like the prices for Monoprice speakers. Are they of acceptable quality? I don't need anything super great, I just don't want them to detract from the listening experience.

Thanks in advance,

Jaime

 

[AnthonyZ]

Hi Jaime,

First, I hate to do it but, well, I will. There are not a lot of women who participate here and it's refreshing when they do. I'm excited for you and your husband and I believe that you'll wonder how you lived without distributed audio once you get past the headache of getting it designed and installed.

The best piece of advice that I can give you, in reading your original post is to not limit your choices of systems that you could use to distribute audio. In other words, don't just run cat5 from the head end to the keypad locations. Instead, run 16/4 (16 gauge, 4 conductors) AND cat5 (at least one, two is preferred for potential future intercom or similar) to the key pads and then 16/2 to the speakers. If the runs turn out to be long (say, over 75'-100') I would recommend you use 14 gauge instead.

I'd also not suggest using an A/B switch to get the DA system tied into your surround sound rig but, rather use line level out puts from your DA system and feed that into an unused input on your surround sound system's preamp or receiver.

Best of luck. I'm sure others will chime in, as well.

 

[Sacedog]

I too would run the speaker cable to the keypad locations, and loop back up to the speakers in the room. Some systems will require this, plus it gives the benefit of wiring for the future; for example, I have a Russound CAV and Compoint intercom. The speaker cables from the CAV, go to the intercom station first (right next to the audio keypad in each room), before they go to the speakers. This way, the intercom can interrupt any audio that is currently playing, in order for the person in the room to hear the page.

Personally, I have been very happy with the Russound system. I have 12 zones and 4 sources, and controll it all using CQC (and the local keypads in each room). Two of the sources play mp3s or Pandora through a squeezebox receiver, which I am very happy with. The quality is very good for distributed audio.

I agree with Anthony regarding the A/B switch. You will be much happier using a line out ot yoru HT, and pumping the music thorugh your HT receiver.

 

[AceCannon]

I think I agree with everything AnthonyZ said. Bearing in mind I just finished the install of my Nuvo Grand Concerto, here are my thoughts:

The Mbath prob should be a dual voicecoil stereo, as you plan, given the size. But I would personally just use regular 8" ceiling speakers in the other non-theater zones. I have the Monoprice and they are PLENTY adequate for background. In fact, they will crank pretty loud, IMHO. I do not think the ceiling speakers will be an issue as far as stereo imaging (not great from the ceiling anyway). Place them adequately, and I believe you can put your furniture anywhere.

The living room / dining room could be two separate zones with two ceiling speakers in each zone. You can always slave one off the other or just choose the same source. In party mode, they will all be on the same source, anyway. This avoids any impedance issues, though I see the hardware you are planning has 6 zones max. One ceiling 8" in the dining and one in the living might do just fine (one zone).

Consider giving the garage a zone?

I ran cat5e to keypad locations and 16/4 directly to the speaker locations (from the centrally-located amp). I originally planned to loop the 16/4 through the keypad locations to be backward compatible with impedance-matching vol controls, but time constraints prohibited it. I think you mentioned cat5e to keypad locations but speaker wire ONLY from keypad to speaker locations. I don't think that will work with most of these systems.

We have really enjoyed our Nuvo system. One of the coolest parts of the new house (so far).

 

[Neurorad]

Problems with the Nuvo-

1. Internet sources not currently available, but Nuvo (and Autonomic Controls) say that will be fixed within a few months.

2. You need to purchase a separate Nuvo Music Port device (street price $350) to listen to mp3's, and still get metadata (song info) at the keypads.

3. The Music Port is still 'glitchy'.

Things I like with Nuvo:

1. Metadata at the keypads.

2. Nice looking keypads.

3. Expandable to 16 zones.

4. Nuvo partners with many home automation controller manufacturers, allowing additional control options via the Nuvo RS232 port.

PM sent detailing my Nuvo GC purchase experience, with an explanation of minimum advertised pricing (MAP).

Welcome to CT.

 

[AceCannon]

Problems with the Nuvo-

2. You need to purchase a separate Nuvo Music Port device (street price $350) to listen to mp3's, and still get metadata (song info) at the keypads.

I am currently using the wired iPod dock as my MP3 "music server" with excellent results. Easily holds my entire music collection and podcasts. Metadata displays on all keypads. Can browse the iPod from any keypad.

A quick sync every now and then keeps it up-to-date.

Guests can bring their iPod over to share their own playlists. Guests seem pretty wowwed by this whole concept of "jacking the iPod into the house".

iPod dock was ? maybe $230

 

[mimitche]

Problems with the Nuvo-

2. You need to purchase a separate Nuvo Music Port device (street price $350) to listen to mp3's, and still get metadata (song info) at the keypads.

I am currently using the wired iPod dock as my MP3 "music server" with excellent results. Easily holds my entire music collection and podcasts. Metadata displays on all keypads. Can browse the iPod from any keypad.

A quick sync every now and then keeps it up-to-date.

Guests can bring their iPod over to share their own playlists. Guests seem pretty wowwed by this whole concept of "jacking the iPod into the house".

iPod dock was ? maybe $230

I completely agree with AceCannon- When it comes to just playing MP3 files I didn't really get the point of the Music Port device- I got the Nuvo wired iPod dock to give me global MP3 playback with metadata at the keypads. I occasionally sync it to keep it up to date with what's on the computer.

As far as general distributed audio recommendations I originally used the "Zone 2" on my home theater amp to supply the sources to A-Bus keypads but am much much happier with my upgrade to the Nuvo E6G. I was very surprised at the improvement in sound quality between the A-Bus keypad amps and the Nuvo amp- had originally figured the less than stellar sound was due to my cheap ceiling speakers.

 

[Brian Yokum]

Jaime,

If you're looking for a basic system that can accept remote inputs throughout your home and distribute amplified audio to multiple zones, you might want to consider the HAI Hi-Fi system. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles of a NuVo or Russound system, but it is simple to install and operate.

http://www.homeauto.com/Products/WholeHome...leHomeAudio.asp

 

[dutchyn]

We also have the MCA-66. I would mention that the speakers do not connect to the keypads; they connect to the MCA-66. In my case, I chose not to run the speaker wires to the keypads, because I have more speakers than keypads: I have four keypads, but six zones of speakers. Three zones work together to provide L,R,C,LR,RR for multichannel stereo. It didn't make sense to have three keypads in one place, because one keypad can control any and all of the zones.

 

[harperjn]

I really appreciate everyone's suggestions. I've got a couple of questions.

I'd also not suggest using an A/B switch to get the DA system tied into your surround sound rig but, rather use line level out puts from your DA system and feed that into an unused input on your surround sound system's preamp or receiver.

The DA equipment will be located in the office and the HT stuff will be in the family room. Is it okay to run line-level audio across the house like that?

The Mbath prob should be a dual voicecoil stereo, as you plan, given the size. But I would personally just use regular 8" ceiling speakers in the other non-theater zones. I have the Monoprice and they are PLENTY adequate for background. In fact, they will crank pretty loud, IMHO. I do not think the ceiling speakers will be an issue as far as stereo imaging (not great from the ceiling anyway). Place them adequately, and I believe you can put your furniture anywhere.

Consider giving the garage a zone?

As far as the dual voicecoil speakers are concerned, I'm worried that walking around the house you will pass under the "left" speaker and then pass under the "right" speaker and the audio will sound disjointed. You don't think this will be a problem?
My husband was asking about the garage, but I've run out of zones on the hardware I've tentatively chosen.

We also have the MCA-66.

How do you like it? Any problems you've noticed with it?




I had been planning on just connecting my DA to the line-out on my sound card. I take it nobody recommends that? I'd really like to listen to Pandora on my system. I do like the metadata being displayed on the keypad, but what is the cost increase to get a system like that?

The MCA-66 is $900. There is a more advance system for $1500. It sounds like the Nuvo GC is the next bump in price. If I went with the HAI system I could add some home automation. What I'm struggling with is where the cut-off point is. Honestly, we hardly ever listen to music (ironically, except in the garage!). My main motivator for DA is that I wrap Christmas presents in the living room and want to listen to my christmas mp3s that are on my pc in the office. I end up blasting it from my pc speakers so by the day after Thanksgiving, my husband has had his fill of christmas music for the season. It is hard to justify $4k for that. On the other hand, I don't want to go with the MCA-66 and find out later that for $600 more I could of had a much better system. Aargh.

 

[felixrosbergen]

With regards to the garage...i would probably make that a zone by itself and try to 'merge' some other zones together or ditch the guest bath zone...(although that would diminish the wow factor).

I have a Nuvo E6G which has 6 zones (expandable to more but not cheap to expand) and I really like it. I looked at Russound as well and they both seem like capable products, the keypad looks and the fact that they have this E6G which is supposed to be very energy efficient in standby tipped the scale to Nuvo. I though the energy efficiency would be important since this thing is actually OFF about 90% of the week since the wife and I both work full time.

I did get the Music Port and have not experienced as much trouble as others, but if you're only looking to get 1 simulatenous stream of MP3 playback and you don't mind having to synch an Ipod once in a while then the Ipod dock is probably a cheaper and more bulletproof solution. My ipod is always in the car or my bag so i didnt want to go looking for it before i can play back any music. On the other hand you can pick up an older ipod pretty cheap now which could just serve as the 'house-pod'.

I went with Polk speakers which are pricey ($250 per pair or so) and regret it now somewhat...for the type of listening that i do (no audiophile here) i don't think the speakers were worth the money. The $40-$60 range on monoprice looks pretty actractuve..but i havent looked at the speaker specs.

I am not familiar with HTD so don't know how it compares. If you plan to do any home automation./integration Russound or Nuvo are probably you better bets since they very highly integrateble.

 

[felixrosbergen]

With regards to the garage...i would probably make that a zone by itself and try to 'merge' some other zones together or ditch the guest bath zone...(although that would diminish the wow factor).

I have a Nuvo E6G which has 6 zones (expandable to more but not cheap to expand) and I really like it. I looked at Russound as well and they both seem like capable products, the keypad looks and the fact that they have this E6G which is supposed to be very energy efficient in standby tipped the scale to Nuvo. I though the energy efficiency would be important since this thing is actually OFF about 90% of the week since the wife and I both work full time.

I did get the Music Port and have not experienced as much trouble as others, but if you're only looking to get 1 simulatenous stream of MP3 playback and you don't mind having to synch an Ipod once in a while then the Ipod dock is probably a cheaper and more bulletproof solution. My ipod is always in the car or my bag so i didnt want to go looking for it before i can play back any music. On the other hand you can pick up an older ipod pretty cheap now which could just serve as the 'house-pod'.

I went with Polk speakers which are pricey ($250 per pair or so) and regret it now somewhat...for the type of listening that i do (no audiophile here) i don't think the speakers were worth the money. The $40-$60 range on monoprice looks pretty actractuve..but i havent looked at the speaker specs.

I am not familiar with HTD so don't know how it compares. If you plan to do any home automation./integration Russound or Nuvo are probably you better bets since they very highly integrateble.

 

[Steve]

As far as the dual voicecoil speakers are concerned, I'm worried that walking around the house you will pass under the "left" speaker and then pass under the "right" speaker and the audio will sound disjointed. You don't think this will be a problem? My husband was asking about the garage, but I've run out of zones on the hardware I've tentatively chosen.

Honestly, we hardly ever listen to music (ironically, except in the garage!). My main motivator for DA is that I wrap Christmas presents in the living room and want to listen to my christmas mp3s that are on my pc in the office. I end up blasting it from my pc speakers so by the day after Thanksgiving, my husband has had his fill of christmas music for the season. It is hard to justify $4k for that. On the other hand, I don't want to go with the MCA-66 and find out later that for $600 more I could of had a much better system. Aargh.

I am not an audiophile either and we never used to really listen to music much either. We still don't use it a ton for music and when we do its usually local radio stations. But you will probably find yourself using it more once you have it. Like now my wife will put it on when she's in the kitchen whereas there was nothing before. I do use it alot for paging of TTS announcements on the automation system. I have a Nuvo Grand Concerto because I just happened to get a very good deal by being in the right place at the right time. My system uses approximately 45 watts while in standby so if I did it all over again I would probably go the E6G route. If you will be planning an automation system around the OmniPro then the HAI HiFi is a good choice but I don't honestly know about using it standalone. Just whatever you decode, make sure it has a robust protocol to communicate with an automation system you may choose. Nuvo and Russound are leaders there.

As far as speakers, I decided to use dual voice coil speakers (I use all Proficient Audio speakers) everywhere except for the kitchen and Master Bedroom (not installed yet tho). As said, I am far from an audiophile so I felt that unless the room was static, like a bedroom where you listen while in bed and can place speakers on either side, the DVCs were fine. Like in my office my chair is in 1 corner. There was no way to get proper imaging there without having the speakers in very awkward positions. I think the DVC's work fine plus its only 1 speaker to buy and install so less holes and clutter in the ceiling too. I put a regular pair in the kitchen because they could be spaced out nicely and the major work areas were between them.

 

[opie]

+1 For the NuVo Essentia E6G one of the more affordable ways to get MetaData at the keypads; I especially like that it only consumes 1W in standby.

I also recommend running the speaker wire through the keypad locations, it just leaves you more options.

 

[dutchyn]

We also have the MCA-66.

How do you like it? Any problems you've noticed with it?

No problems at all. It is a speaker controller with remote volume controls only. For what it does, it works well: no noise (although wiring selection has more impact on that factor), fast response, and reasonable power. It is not a fully-featured home audio/video matrix switcher with associated storage, but with young children, we want the keep TV watching to a minimum by not making it more attractive.

I had been planning on just connecting my DA to the line-out on my sound card. I take it nobody recommends that?

This is dated information and may not longer apply. Be careful, digital signal generators can produce faster and sharper transitions than some op-amp based amplifiers can support. At one time, a Soudblaster Pro card could blow inexpensive or high-power amplifier. I'd like to think that can't happen anymore, but I don't know.

What I'm struggling with is where the cut-off point is.

My suspicion is that your cut-off is much like many others here: the bank account can't afford it. My wife asked for a few special features like having HA announce when the washer and dryer finish, and monitor that the freezers are working. So we compromised on a broadcast intercom; we've been in the new place for just over a week, and she said, "what would it cost to go to a [point-to-point] intercom? Can we do that?".

The $1500 system had feature we don't need/want: input sources at the keypads -- ours are on the wall in places we won't have other audio signal generators; and we (obviously) have an intercom, so the paging feature is unimportant. In keeping with making TV unattractive, we decided to divide the house into independent upstairs and downstairs areas. There's wire in the walls to let us glue them into one, but for now the upstairs zones are not visible from downstairs; and vice versa.