Network POE issue

[pete_c]

I'm having an issue here with a long run of Cat5e.  I have been using it for about 10 years now for an analog camera with a balun on each side of it carrying power and video just fine.
 
I am looking to change to an IP HD camera with a POE connection.
 
I disconnected the baluns and tested the cable with my old network tester.  It appears fine.
 
Initially tested network connectivity and it not really good.  It connects to the switch and lighting the LEDs.  That said though it keeps disconnecting for whatever reason.
 
I tested the POE connection using a POE power splitter.  From the 48V to the splitter I am getting good voltage except when I put a load on it; then it doesn't work.
 
Now I am wondering why?  Should I take a multimeter to it? 
 
Is there another means to test that all 8 wires are intact end to end?
 
I know that pins 1,2,3 & 6 are utilized for the network and pins 4,5, 7 and 8 are utilized for POE.
 
I checked my punch downs and I think they are fine (red and blue but I do have issues with orange and green).
 
I do have a cheap tester with just LEDs telling me that the pairs are wired OK.  Its just a simple red/green blinking in order tester.
 
I do have another tester which I purchased from Monoprice.  It has 9 LEDs on it but I do not think that it will tell me much more.

 

[drvnbysound]

Are you certain that the hardware is fine?
 
If you have tested the cable and it's metering out good, I don't know that I would keep trying to find an issue with it. Have you tried to test the hardware with a short test cable to see if everything else is working as expected?

 

[pete_c]

Thanks drvnbysound,
 
Yup it started to pour outside with some major rain; so I took a break. 
 
Tested it again with the cable tester and it was fine.  I didn't do anything different or change it.
 
I just reconnected it and it is working fine.  I also turned on syslog/debug on the camera to see if anything was messed up on the camera and it wasn't.  I am utilize both the analog and the IP connection to the camera.  The analog portion though does appear to be PAL versus NTSC which is odd to me.  All is well now.
 
I am going to get a better tester as just seeing LED lights wire per wire ($20 tester) isn't really enough when playing with this stuff.
 
I've been only testing video basics and didn't really get granular with it until now (with the originally installed one and now a second one).
 
Its good I turned the syslog on as I was getting some odd audio errors and don't have sip or a microphone being utilized.

6/29/2013 2:46:22 PM [790] From: (192.168.244.158) Fac:17 Sev:3 Msg >>> avserver: gs_audio.c:AUDIO_ThrFxn():1082: AUDIO_GetPcmFrame error 
6/29/2013 2:46:22 PM [789] From: (192.168.244.158) Fac:17 Sev:3 Msg >>> avserver: gs_audio.c:AUDIO_GetPcmFrame():597: audio_loopback: overrun occurred
6/29/2013 2:46:45 PM [792] From: (192.168.244.158) Fac:17 Sev:3 Msg >>> avserver: gs_audio.c:AUDIO_ThrFxn():1082: AUDIO_GetPcmFrame error 
6/29/2013 2:46:45 PM [791] From: (192.168.244.158) Fac:17 Sev:3 Msg >>> avserver: gs_audio.c:AUDIO_GetPcmFrame():597: audio_loopback: overrun occurred
6/29/2013 2:47:10 PM [794] From: (192.168.244.158) Fac:17 Sev:3 Msg >>> avserver: gs_audio.c:AUDIO_ThrFxn():1082: AUDIO_GetPcmFrame error 

 
I just enabled the preferred audio codec and the errors went away.  This is some issue with the Grandstream OS stuff unrelated though to the network.  I wish I could telnet / ssh to this device.   I have the bitrate turned up to 8192 with a var

 

[malakill]

Hi Pete,
 
I had similar problem with some of my POE devices, for an exemple my Cisco Access point would go offline/online from time to time, and the issue was my connector, for some reason my cisco ap didn't like my connectors, so I've installed a keystone + a patch cable from monoprice and it's all working fine (temp fix until I found a proper connector) 
 
For your tester you can have a pretty good one (for the price, it's no flukes but it work great.) at Monoprice, especially if you live in the US.  
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=105&cp_id=10524&cs_id=1052401&p_id=8138&seq=1&format=2

 

[pete_c]

Thank-you malakill.
 
Yes have that one and the next one above it with the 9 LED lights on it.  Might get something a bit better that will give me more granular detail.
 
The cable I was playing with today is punched down at the punch down block and I used a keystone RJ-45 jack at the other end.  I still do have another free cat5e cable run to the location.  I have a few more to do.
 
I am slowly (real slow these days) converting all of my outside analog cams to IP cameras.  I ran the cat5e cable some 10 years ago underground in PVC tubing.  I did switch a few cams from using RG6 plus power cables to baluns with power and video using same to be utilized cat5e cables.
 
The IP HD camera is working well tonight and I am working on dome #3 now with a 1080 HD IP camera on it.
 
Thinking of getting one of these:
 
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=105&cp_id=10524&cs_id=1052401&p_id=8128&seq=1&format=2
 
Some of the outside cabling stuff while coming into the house at a certain point does maybe get a little bit long.
 
IE:  I have one by the garage doors that runs up into one attic, then to another attic across to the other side and down a chase which going two floors down to the basement; then goes across the basement to the patch panel.  Another one is an outside run that goes along the side of the house almost the entire circumference; then out to the perferal edge of the property.  Most difficult on the outside runs was using the original quad shielded RG-6 / siamese cable.  It is not nearly as flexible as the cat5e cabling.

 

[tmbrown97]

This cheapo testers are absolutely useless - early in my career I wasted a good amount of time troubleshooting runs that passed those but still didn't work.  Now I wouldn't even consider anything LESS than that last one Pete mentioned.  If you're going to do your own Cat5/6 cabling, you should be prepared to invest a couple hundred dollars into the right tools.  I don't do a lot of wiring, but it is an occasional part of my work, so I have a few thousand invested in the right tools... and they make the job much easier.
 
Pete - that better tester should at least give you cable run lengths.  If you're pushing the 100m limits of POE/Ethernet, I do have some tricks up my sleeve - including some products from Veracity such as the OutreachMax. With their proper power supply and repeater, I have a run that's over 700' to a microwave radio.  Sometimes even just a better POE power supply can do the trick.
 
Passive POE requires no negotiation which may be why it worked fine with baluns, but with active POE there's more going on and it could be suffering a loss from bad negotiation or regular old voltage loss.

 

[malakill]

I bought that monoprice tester and it give you some usefull info, like the cable length, if the cable is crossed/strait but that's pretty much it...  I don't know any other really good tester like flukes, but it's wayyy out of my price range.

 

[tmbrown97]

I keep a Fluke CableIQ in the truck at all times... if there's any question over cable issues, I put that on the cable before I even bother to troubleshoot... and if I were to break down my hourly rate, it has paid for itself several times over... both for me and my employers/hiring companies.
 
It's unfortunate that they're so expensive, as they save everyone so much time and energy... if you sell your time at all doing IT consulting, you'd be doing yourself and your clients a disservice by not having something like that, since troubleshooting obscure network issues has to be one of the worst things ever to deal with.

 

[activemind]

Thank-you malakill.
 
Yes have that one and the next one above it with the 9 LED lights on it.  Might get something a bit better that will give me more granular detail.
 
The cable I was playing with today is punched down at the punch down block and I used a keystone RJ-45 jack at the other end.  I still do have another free cat5e cable run to the location.  I have a few more to do.
 
I am slowly (real slow these days) converting all of my outside analog cams to IP cameras.  I ran the cat5e cable some 10 years ago underground in PVC tubing.  I did switch a few cams from using RG6 plus power cables to baluns with power and video using same to be utilized cat5e cables.
 
The IP HD camera is working well tonight and I am working on dome #3 now with a 1080 HD IP camera on it.
 
Thinking of getting one of these:
 
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=105&cp_id=10524&cs_id=1052401&p_id=8128&seq=1&format=2
 
Some of the outside cabling stuff while coming into the house at a certain point does maybe get a little bit long.
 
IE:  I have one by the garage doors that runs up into one attic, then to another attic across to the other side and down a chase which going two floors down to the basement; then goes across the basement to the patch panel.  Another one is an outside run that goes along the side of the house almost the entire circumference; then out to the perferal edge of the property.  Most difficult on the outside runs was using the original quad shielded RG-6 / siamese cable.  It is not nearly as flexible as the cat5e cabling.

 
Second this monprice tester you have linked above. I have it and it works excellent! Not only that, it would also tell you how far your cable is broken....
 
I dont know how would I have labeled my wires without this. It comes with a loopback that you can connect to one end and probe the ports one by one till you find the one!
 
Does both RJ45 and Coax! Good value for money!

 

[activemind]

This cheapo testers are absolutely useless - early in my career I wasted a good amount of time troubleshooting runs that passed those but still didn't work.  Now I wouldn't even consider anything LESS than that last one Pete mentioned.  If you're going to do your own Cat5/6 cabling, you should be prepared to invest a couple hundred dollars into the right tools.  I don't do a lot of wiring, but it is an occasional part of my work, so I have a few thousand invested in the right tools... and they make the job much easier.

 
Sorry W2P, but I disagree. I used the monoprice tester above and it does the job just fine. Yes, its not Fluke brand but its < $100 which is what my max limit was. I used it extensively while wiring my downstairs and labeling my drops. Would have gone nuts without it!
 
Granted, I am not a professional, just a homeowner trying to save some bucks by doing stuff by myself :nutz:

 

[tmbrown97]

Sorry W2P, but I disagree. I used the monoprice tester above and it does the job just fine. Yes, its not Fluke brand but its < $100 which is what my max limit was. I used it extensively while wiring my downstairs and labeling my drops. Would have gone nuts without it!
 
Granted, I am not a professional, just a homeowner trying to save some bucks by doing stuff by myself :nutz:

That's no offense to me - if you are talking about using the $9 equivalent and it worked, then you're lucky... great!!
 
Crappy testers are only an issue when there's a failure to detect and they miss it...  If your runs were fine and your tester OK'd them and you used them and all checked out, then no harm, right?
 
Where the good testers prove their worth is when they show failures that other craptastic testers would pass.

 

[pete_c]

The runs did test out OK with the two low end LED testers.
 
Been streaming HD now just fine with no dropped packets.  Testing HD / SD via RTSP direct and to ZM.  (mostly on office LCD (37")).
 
Throughput testing gives me around 80Mbps. 
 
I "was" getting freezes when pushing the bitrate to around 8k.
 
There is still an issue though as POE doesn't work.   Kind of works but when a load is applied it doesn't work. (using the RG-6 siamese cable power source for now) and analog RG-6 video (its PAL though).  Nice to have the analog and two HD feeds from the camera.
 
I did order a tester; a bit different though than the Monoprice one which will provide some (maybe?) more granular details.
 
Will post price and what it does when I get it..  That said I have seen it for sale for approximate $200 (I paid less though).

 

[pete_c]

Received new tester yesterday. 
 
The IP HD dome on the good network / bad POE cable has been doing fine with the externally connected 12VDC power to it.
 
Testing the wire today with the new tester.   I am thinking that its not an issue of the length of the wire but rather some other issue at this time.
 
This tester has a menu on it to test lengths of wire / wire pairs / breaks in the wires and mismatching pairs.  It has no LED's but rather a text menu with verbiage.
 
Before using it though I have to calibrate it with a fixed length catXX wire.
 
Right now the wire does test out with the cheaper tester OK with LED's lighting up for each of the 4 pairs of wires.
 
First test was my "test" cat5e cable that runs outside to my deck (been using this for the POE to IP camera testing).  It had just crimped RJ-45 ends on it.  I tested it to be a bit over 100 feet.  WIre mapping shows incorrect matched pairs.  I always do have issues telling the colors apart on the 8 wires.  I cut and put jacks on each end; tested it again and all is OK.  I have been testing this POE connection with my Tycon midstream injector.  It did show pairs 5-6 that were messed up.
 
Going to the real test wire now seeing that the length is just a tad over 200 feet.  That said the wire mapping is totally mismatched on pairs 1,2,3 & 6.  I must be really bad seeing these color as I do have it punched down in the basement patch panel and a jack on the other side.  That said there are no breaks in the pairs so its just the mismatching issue relating to the POE stuff.
 
Wow; this really does indicate how bad I am with colors.  Basically it was the orange and green pairs that were "switched".  I have OK light in the basement but not good enough to see the two colors well.  Tested again with the basic LED tester.  This one shows the pairs lighting green LEDs if OK; red if not OK.  Looks the same as before and tested out OK.
 
Now moving the cable back to the POE switch and testing 48V to 12VDC POE splitter. Used multimeter to check the voltage.  All is fine.
 
Reconnected HD IP camera providing power via POE switch and all is well.  What a PITA.
 
I've attached a picture of the tester I utilized.  Its on Amazon and Ebay.  Some internet web sites have it posted for around $200.
 
It is a cheap $30 with free shipping tester that I received in less than a week shipped domestically.  You have to change the length part from meters to feet if you want to see the wire length in feet.  The comments state that it eats batteries quickly.  That said I will probably take the batteries out when I am not  using it.  I didn't get the Monoprice tester mostly because of the bad comments listed for it.

 

[42etus]

How about $20 and free shipping
 
http://www.eachbuyer.com/catalog/product/view/id/62228?curency=USD&gclid=CNio4JiCn7gCFaU5QgodvjYAfw

 

[drvnbysound]

So the original tester that you used didn't tell you that the pairs were mis-wired?