New addition to my home security system.

[sic0048]

DOGS ARE WORTHLESS unless you are home.

You think your neighbors are concerned about your property when your dog barks? When my neighbor's dogs bark (7 of them surrounding my back yard) I just think how much I hate them all (dogs and neighbors =) and whether I should order another Bark Stopper (I have 2 already).

Vaughn

Everything you just said, I can say the same thing about security systems. How many times have you heard a house alarm going off and thought anything but "Dang that is annoying." We all expect the occasional false alarm, and will allow another person's alarm to go off for some period of time before we even consider going out and exploring what the problem is. Even a monitored system will give a burglar plenty of time to break in and steal anything they want before a police officer would arrive.

A dog will never stop a determined burglar. However, I think they can be a useful deterrent against the random break in (as stated in my first post).

 

[ver0776]

Yeah, a dog does not hurt, not every thief is a Cesar Millon =) Some people are scared of dogs and dogs know it and it helps a lot to filter out some thieves. I just seen in a lot of those episodes that people did not take other security precautions Because they had a dog. That is what I mean by the false sense of security to beware of.

And yes, same is true of security systems. Anyone can wipe you out in under 10 minutes, so the monitored services are not even going to stop you from getting robbed. When my system pages me, it takes a couple minutes for me to log into the cameras and logs. Then it would take the police another 10-15 minutes to respond, or would take me 15-20 minutes to drive home my self.

Bolted down safes, doubled-sided locks, keyed window locks, shatter lamenents on windows, extra locks on interior doors, these things can make the job take longer so in the 10 minutes you are being robbed, more of your stuff will stay intact. Organization, inventory management and insurance are the ulitmate defenders of stuff I guess.

As for neighbors hearing alarms, I agree. I don't even bother. My house will not alert neighbors, I have no siren. I rely on SMS, email alerts and the system constantly informing the theif that it knows what they are doing... My pellet gun enabled RC car is not upto the job of defense yet =) Maybe this will be the year for that...

BTW I was not addressing any one post in particular either, just bored at work and liked the topic of Dog's roles in security...

(As for vcrib, it is running it's second house now. Alpha tester has been working me hard cleaning up the code and adding nice usuability features. I will be glad to take on another tester any time and will put out a video of the 1.9 version showing all the supporting apps some point soon) I hope the alpha tester will release some shots of his GUI too.


Vaughn

 

[Digger]

If I didnt have pets I would set up my alarm to sound immediatly but then 2 mins into the alarm cycle kick in enough extra sirens to drive anyone out of the house with blood pouring from their ears . I could basically do it in a manner that the secondary sirens would be hidden (controls and all) so that even if they ripped the alarm panel off the wall it would still be going.

It would minimize the amount of the loss's. But the theif would probably sue me for the physical and emotional damages

Being that we have several pets this is not an option.

 

[wuench]

My sisters house was robbed a couple of months ago. They broke into the garage and stole everything in it.

They didn't enter the house, though, because of the dog barking his head off inside....

 

[Steve #1]

Dogs definitly hold a place in home security, and where that place is depends on the individual dog.

Enough about what dog trainers think and what the rest of us have deducted from TV.... what do burglers think.

Jack MacLean, former burgler and auther of Secrets of a Superthief, spent his time as a guest of the state of Florida surveying prison inmates who'd been convicted of burglary or other residential crimes to use in writing his book.

Three of the questions were about dogs and home security:

Would dogs scare you away?
65% said that dogs of good size and unfriendly persuasion would scare them away
35% said no dog would scare them away.

Based on reassessment of responses, MacLean concludes that over 95% would indeed be scared away.

What kinds of dogs scare you away the most?
35% Dobermans
30% "pit bull dogs"[6]
25% all dogs
10% German Shepherd Dogs

What would scare you away from a residence more than anything?
59% people in the house
32% almost any dog[7]
9% replies from night-time only burglars, who'd be deterred by spot or flood lights lighting up a yard

In another study, the following question was asked of 589 convicted property offenders:

How effective is each of the following likely to be in preventing burglary, breaking and entering and grand theft?

0 - not effective 1 - somewhat effective 2 - very effective

Monitored burglar alarms[8] 1.51
Electronic sensors in windows 1.35
Closed circuit TV cameras in stores 1.31
Private security patrols 1.14
DOG IN HOUSE 1.11
Weapons in home 1.10
Guardhouses protecting homes 1.07
Random police foot patrols 1.05
Better exterior lighting 1.02
"Neighborhood Watch" programs 0.98
Safes/strong boxes 0.83
Local burglar alarms 0.83
Deadbolt lock 0.79
Timed interior lights 0.78[9]


For those of you that don't want a dog, MacLean also recomends leaving a large water dish on the back porch along with a lage chew toy.

.... and since we're at it.... I use a Dogue de Bordeaux for my analog security system.

 

[CollinR]

My sisters house was robbed a couple of months ago. They broke into the garage and stole everything in it.

They didn't enter the house, though, because of the dog barking his head off inside....

Not uncommon at all, lots of valuables in the garage and rarely a motion there. The dog may or may not deserve credit, depends on their MO.


Also the common trend is to tape the master window and break it, then stay inside the master as most chitty alarms don't have a motion in the master.

 

[ver0776]

I did not see electric airsoft guns on 10lb usb pan tilt systems spraying 200rounds per minute on that inmate survey list... =)

Well, maybe no one has them now, but that is what we all need. screw passive systems... you get an alarm, you log into your turret web page, aim and dump 50 rounds a busrt at the thiefs... Pain potential aside, would you casually continuing to rob a house if you were being shot at, even with plastic bbs? motion activation is an option too...

On an easier Doggie note, record some viscous dog barking an have your HA system play it out of different speakers...

Ok, since I am insane today, here is my most innovative security invention EVER heheh. Using a rubber hand (with like pinch motion from halloween, or use servos), attach it to your blinds and tie it to motion detectors outside. So when motion is detected outside, the hand opens the blinds a little so it looks like someone is looking out of the window. In combonation with other lighting control, tell me you would not think someone was home....

Vaughn

 

[technerd]

LOL too funny.

When you get really creative there are some interesting ideas out there!

How about an instant 2 way TV conference where you show up on TV and demand the robber stop?

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

How about an instant 2 way TV conference where you show up on TV and demand the robber stop?

I actually like this idea!

 

[jeffx]

Also have my killer attack cat.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Also have my killer attack cat.

NO NO NO Jeff;

Those disgusting cat pics go in THIS thread!!!

 

[pete]

. . your dog is dumb and can not match wits with an intruder. It takes a Thief is very accurate . .

sorry, but my dog is smarter that the average internet forum poster that believes to much of what he sees on TV . .

. . at least it wasn't all in one sentence . .

my dog can tell if you're nervous (and some guy doing a TV show in your house has no reason to be nervous) . . and she barks and growls and gets real mean looking (after a few minutes she'll even start foaming a bit ) if she senses your nervous . . probably doesn't know why your nervous, just that you are . .


Pete C

 

[AnthonyZ]

Wow. I love this thread. I think there's a great deal of info that supports both sides. My personal opinion is that one supplements the other. As in, a well designed, COMPREHENSIVE (as opposed to ADT/Brinks "lick it and stick it") security system supplements and/or is supplemented by the family's good buddy.

I own a couple of dogs. One fat little Chihuahua mix who's fun but wouldn't scare away a beetle and a funny lookin' retriever/spaniel mix. The spaniel was rescued and I swear he's grateful. Why, you ask? Because if someone, anyone other than immediate family, enters the home unannounced, he will open you up. Literally. He has gone after my younger brother twice. Both times required a replacement pair of pants and one incident required medical aid. It was awesome!

In other words, it depends on the animal.

 

[shenandoah75]

Well speaker of analog.... i have a dog as well as one of each of the following outputs below (and several other similar but large/longer devices made by a very respected name in home security: Browning)... These are not hooked up to Elk Outputs or the rules engine because to date it seems the only control interface is a very propritary artifical intellegence system i have obtained which is not very open - no one i've talked to can supply the required ASCII commands to me despite attempts to obbtain it.

Not quite as fun/fancy as the airsoft idea... but to the point of a passive system, i see no reason for an external siren that would go off in a false alarm and tick off my neightbors. Nor do i see a need for free / priced monitoring service to add to delays in responding to an emergency. Just the emails/calls the elk puts out to me or if needed local loved ones, a strobe to alert me (or others) to things and the interior speaker (and eventually screamers).

I'm sure someone will slap me in this forum for taking this approach, but if you're a victim of violent crime, dealing with the monitor service and then the police delay isn't gonna help much. No disrespect to cops, but around here they seem to be more about traffic citations and hanging out at the local Dunkin than keeping a look out for suspicious activity. My dog and the elk and i do a better job at that. And as the victim of past agression (luckily exterior vandalism only - which eventual cameras will me with) i don't intend to be a victim again...

-brad


p.s. foreseeing some questions: my wife shoots better than i do and luckily in a nightime scenario, the fact the kids are upstairs all but removes being concerned about what's on the other side of a wall (save the $$$ to replace it). the lower level of the house is block construction and I have a large lot... anyways i'm now expecting the flaming to come...

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

anyways i'm now expecting the flaming to come...

Your darn right flaming will come and let me be the first! I don't think you are armed well enough!

I myself like the short barrel 12 gauge with a "sabot" slug as the first load. This way you will have a nice "hole" through the door for the later four shotgun rounds to go through. I don't plan on 'aiming' much in the middle of the night!

We had a neighbor who had an incident late one night and was not armed. He and his family were inside their house helpless until police arrived many, many minutes later as this guy was outside his house parading around in a ski mask. Long story, but I'm with you. If you are relying on police to help you with a dangerous situation, you better rethink your strategy.