new construction

[jcalisi]

Wow what a great place to get up to speed on security and automation information. I do have a question I can't seem to find a good answer to. I'm in the early stages of building a house and will be running all of the low voltage wiring myself. I have decided to go with Elk M1 Gold because I do want to have some automation in the future but for now security is priority.

My question is the window sensors and how to install them. The house will have vinyl double hung windows throughout. I don't want to see the sensors and would like to mount the ones where you drill a whole in the frame and attach a magnet to the windows. However, I can't seem to find if that will invalidate my window warranty. Oh and I don't want to use wireless if at all possible.

 

[tmbrown97]

The only way to know for sure if it'll void the warranty is to contact the window manufacturer. Generally speaking, it will - but sometimes they'll have a designated place where it's OK to install them. Drilling through both layers of the frame does technically present an opportunity for leakage if not done right.

Another option to consider is some super-small surface mount contacts - something like the pill is so small you'll barely notice it.

 

[jcalisi]

Work2Play. Thanks that looks like it may work. Do re-sellers carry their products or do I have to purchase directly through them?

 

[tmbrown97]

They can be found in distribution - a quick google search uncovered this: http://dpcdist.com/tanepillcontact-bagof10.aspx

 

[carempel]

I'm in the same boat, trying to figure out what to use for window & door sensors in new construction. Does anyone else have some wired recommendations for sensors to use with Elk M1?

jcalisi, I'm keen to hear about what you decide to use.

 

[newalarm]

I bought some of these but have not yet installed them:

http://www.homesecur...et-by-winn.aspx

They are tiny; the actual size is around 3/16 thick or so, i would need to measure it.

My window guy said that as long as you do not drill into the flashing or gasket of the window, they would warranty. That being said, if the window company wants to, they can always claim that you damaged the window and they will not warranty, even though the work you did had nothing to do with the warranty claim.

The problem i had with our Pella windows (builder grade) was that the frame at the bottom sash is soooo thin, that drilling into it is a huge risk; if you hit the clash, you ruin the window. Problem with surface mounted is that they can be knocked off.

 

[jcalisi]

newalarm - I originally looked at doing something like that. Do you not have enough room to indent and glue the magnet I'll ask my builder to see what his thoughts are on this. I like the pill mentioned above but I can see my kids knocking them off or otherwise. If its hidden no chance of seeing it or alignment issues.

Does anyone have a picture of hidden sensor installed. Oddly enough I can't find one anywhere. I would love to see this one installed to see how it works in the track. http://dpcdist.com/ultraminisurfacemountcontactbagof10.aspx

 

[newalarm]

It comes with a small screw, about 1/2" long or less. You may be able to use silicone instead after you recess is slightly. Then paint over it.

We bought sensors similar to the pill, but rectangular (like in your link http://dpcdist.com/u...actbagof10.aspx). They have sticky back, plus a tab that you can snap off (if not needed) to screw them in. I snapped off the tab and just stuck them there, but I am concerned about them falling off. That is why i bought the item i posted above.

I will be doing install soon, so i can tell you how it goes.

 

[Del91574]

As a word to many DIY'ers out there that buy these contacts from resellers:

Do yourself a favor and buy screw terminal contacts instead of ones with leads. Leads are great if you can make a splice and easily get to them, but if the splice is buried or in the wall or similar, especially for any house that has foam insulation, you did yourself a huge disservice.

It seems like all the resellers I see online almost exclusively have "cheapie" contacts with wire leads.

 

[wuench]

As a word to many DIY'ers out there that buy these contacts from resellers:

Do yourself a favor and buy screw terminal contacts instead of ones with leads. Leads are great if you can make a splice and easily get to them, but if the splice is buried or in the wall or similar, especially for any house that has foam insulation, you did yourself a huge disservice.

It seems like all the resellers I see online almost exclusively have "cheapie" contacts with wire leads.

+1 to that, screw terminals are also a much cleaner instal IMHO....

 

[jcalisi]

I thought the same thing. Any concerns of corrosion on the terminals over time?

 

[Del91574]

You shouldn't have much in the way of exposed copper on the cabling if terminated correctly, and if you have enough water seepage to really corrode out, you have other issues. Screw terminals are plated.

Remember, contacts, other devices, and wiring, while everyone thinks of them as "permanent" sooner or later, contacts are going to need to be pulled and replaced, devices are going to fail or become obsolete, and the same goes for cabling, while security is better than something like networking cabling, if you can't get slack at the device to work with, you're doing yourself a disservice. The small 1/4" contacts or flangeless, you're never getting to them or the wiring ever again, especially if they're painted in. 3/8" contacts are enough of a pain to pull after they've been in a couple of years or painted.

People worry about how something looks more than the servicablity. Service loops in cabling or slack are the first things people forget about.

 

[newalarm]

So DELInstallations, do you favor surface mounted contacts over the recessed ones? Unfortunately, i bought the 'cheap' ones, not the screw terminal contacts. Wish i had read this. I am using the ELK gel contact crimps tough, that should help with corrosion over time. Any advice on using these? There is little literature with them. The recommend folding wires back and stuffing them in, but they did not fit, unless you strip the wires first? Any other crimp recommendations?

 

[video321]

I used the Tane Pill w/leads on all of my windows. The lead was then covered with foam insulation, but the crimp and zone wire were put in after the foam dried so I have plenty of slack to work with there (plus a coil in the crawl). If I ever had to replace the contact I'll drill a channel through the foam and slide a new one down - not a big deal. Looking back after it was done I thought maybe I should have used screw terminals, but I didn't want any of the internal wire colors (red/blk) showing wtih the white windows - even though the lead is only showing by 1/2"!!! I'm sure I could have made it work, but...

 

[newalarm]

... but I didn't want any of the internal wire colors (red/blk) showing wtih the white windows...

That is what white out is for

Seriously, I am going to have some expose wires and i will just paint them and the sensors carefully so they blend in better.