New Elk install PD9, PD9HC confusion

[Peter_H]

Hey Guys,

I'm a long time lurker. I just put in my order last night for an M1 system through Automated outlet. I thought I had everything I needed but now I'm not so sure.

Can someone please clarify for me where you would use the PD9 and PD9HC. Can you guys also comment on whether I need either of these? Here is a basic run down of what I will be installing.

Elk M1GKS
2 - KP2
2 - M1XIN
1 - M1XOVR
1 - M1EXP
1 - M1DBH
1 - Elk-Wk1
1 - ELK-45
3 - Peizo sirens
1 - ELK-SP35
4 - ELK-SP12F
8 - Blue Line PIR
1 - 5825A Glass break sensor

There are lots of windows in the house so after doors, windows, and PIR's I'm right at about 40 input zones.

Now, that I have typed it all out, I'm thinking I need more power. I did buy an extra 24V power brick. However, this is to drive the irrigation system.

Any help on power consumption would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Peter

 

[Digger]

The PDH9HC would make it easier to hook up your motions etc to the aux power. It would also isolate them so if there was a short on the power for one the others would still work. It is not a must have item.

The M1 can handle the amount of devices on your system power wise from what I can see at a quick glance but you may want to add a second battery to extend your battery run time.

 

[Peter_H]

The PDH9HC would make it easier to hook up your motions etc to the aux power. It would also isolate them so if there was a short on the power for one the others would still work. It is not a must have item.

The M1 can handle the amount of devices on your system power wise from what I can see at a quick glance but you may want to add a second battery to extend your battery run time.

Thanks. Can you clarify why are you recommending the PD9HC over just the PD9? Also, since I'm going to be buying more, do you recommend 1 or 2? Should I move all of the expansion modules to another PD9?

Can you also clarify for me how the PD9HC works? I understand that it needs it's own Power supply and then it distributes the 9 outputs to different devices. However, is it always on or is it similar to a relay in that there is a signal from the ELK to trigger this to ouput power to the other devices.

When you say, you would isolate the motions, does this refer to putting them on an external power distribution since it has individual fuse/load protection per port?

Also, since i will be driving the 8 motions and they are all 12v, I would need the ELK P1216 for the PD9HC, is this correct?

Regarding an additional battery, Do I purchase an additional battery and wire it in series ? Do I need an additional Power Supply/battery charger for the extra battery?

 

[iqvoice]

These projects have a way of growing bigger, don't they?

One thing I decided, about half way through, was that I wanted a second security box.... not a bigger main box. After painstakingly threading about six cat5 cables from the attic to the basement where the main box is, and realizing that I still needed to pull at least six more cables, I thought "this is nuts!" Since Elk provides this really great serial bus, why not use it? So now I'm going to have two security boxes, one in the basement and on in the attic. The one in the basement will hold the M1G, the DBH, and the M1XEP, and all the local runs for the basement motion and window sensors. (It's a walk out basement). I'll run a serial feed from the DBH to the second box in the attic, and put an elk input expander, relay, and output modules in the 2nd box. All of the feeds for outdoor strobes, sirens, sensors and second floor motion sensors will be handled locally in the attic, and I won't need to pull any more cables through narrow holes between floors, yuck! Plus, there is still room in the 2nd box for a 12v DC supply, so I can run power locally, using a lot less cable. I will need to run AC/110V to the box, but that won't be hard, there is a circuit nearby that I can tap into.

 

[iqvoice]

Regarding an additional battery, Do I purchase an additional battery and wire it in series ? Do I need an additional Power Supply/battery charger for the extra battery?

You definitely don't want to wire it in series, you'll end up with double the voltage! I wouldn't recommend wiring a second battery in parallel either, unless it is a like model to the one that came with your elk. A single, more powerful replacement battery is the way to go. However, if you move the motion sensor loads to a seperate power supply, than that negates the whole battery thing. You could just get a big fat UPS. Then you'll have backup power for everything, including things that might not take 12V DC.

 

[Peter_H]

These projects have a way of growing bigger, don't they?

Yeah I can see that. I haven't even gotten my first order and I'm already expanding.

I'm not understanding the extra battery now. Are you guys suggesting to get an additional battery and charger to run just the PD9HC('s)?

Do you have any info on the other questions I had?

 

[wuench]

These projects have a way of growing bigger, don't they?

Yeah I can see that. I haven't even gotten my first order and I'm already expanding.

I'm not understanding the extra battery now. Are you guys suggesting to get an additional battery and charger to run just the PD9HC('s)?

Do you have any info on the other questions I had?

The bigger (or second) battery will just give you longer run time in an outage. You don't need PD9HC's unless you are going to be pulling that much power from one PD9. The PD9's are 200ma the PD9HC's are 400ma. You have to do the math and figure out what you need. The Elk Aux bus is rated at 1 Amp, if you are below that number you don't need a separate power supply. The PD9 and PD9HC are not power supplies, they are power distribution modules. To add separate power you would need another battery, power supply and optionally PD9's to split out the wiring.

BTW, if you put the Elk on a UPS, as suggested above, it will not know if the power goes out and alert you or the central station if that happens. It also will not be able to monitor the health of the UPS. On it's own power the Elk tests the battery and alerts on power outages and restores. Also, if you split the power like you are talking about the Elk won't be able to monitor the health of the second power supply and battery. Just an FYI.

 

[Digger]

The PD9HC is the same price as the PD9. The PD9HC is rated twice as much per output as the PD9. If you had to attach a device greater than 200 ma to it (now or future) you would not have to use 2 outputs to get the higher current. I always use the HC version because of that as it is more cost effective. You can power the PD9HC from the aux power of the M1. If you exceed the ratings of the M1 (see below) you can always add an aux power supply and power the PD9HC that way.

There is no reason you cannot put a second 8 aH battery in parallel with the first. It is actually UL Listed that way as an option. It would be less expensive for you since you already have one 8 aH battery.

The M1 is perfectly capable of charging two 8 aH batteries in parallel (and again is UL Listed that way as an option). In fact it can charge up to 18 aH worth of batteries per the UL Listing.

If you do not have any fire devices in the system (thermal's or smoke detectors etc) then you can put up to 1 A of accessories on the panel for standby condition and still comply with the UL Rating if memory serves me correctly (double check the manual as its been years since I worked on that). If you have fire devices then to meet UL and NFPA requirements you have to have the second battery and you would be limited to 500 ma of accessories on the M1 to comply with UL and NFPA requirements.

My opinion is you should read and reread the manual and ask all of the questions you want. Keep in mind that this will also be fun once you get to play with the system when it is running.

Remember to register your M1 as soon as you get it. You will get a password that will allow you to download the free ELK-RP software to help you program the system and also any firmware updates that come out (also free).

ENJOY!!!!!!!!

 

[AceCannon]

Just another perspective: I picked up an Altronix OLS207 power supply from Ebay for $30. Rated 12vDC, 6A. It is plugged into a UPS. The house has a 20KW generator that takes over 10-20s after the utility fails.

The Altronix powers most stuff for the Elk, but the Elk's ps is plugged directly in the wall, no UPS.

As of now, I've got the databus devices running from the panel's power. Motions, doorstrike, strobe are on the Altronix. My plan is to use the Altronix to power any other 12vDC devices I add to the closet.