Pet Immunity

[KidCalledZero]

I have searched the forum on pet immune sensors and also have read quite a bit about the different products on line.

I have one question which I can't find the answer to.

In regard to pet immunity, I see weight thresholds thrown around like 100lbs, 80lbs, 50lbs, 20lbs on the product websites. But when I read the forums, I read about pet immunity in regard to elevation. Some posters make reference to pet immune sensors working great until their cats climp too high and then set off the sensor.

So my question is....Are these sensors pet immunity truly based on the weight of the pet regardless of where the pet is? In reading the product pages it would lead you to believe that if you buy a 50lb pet immune sensor, there will be no problem with a 10 lb cat.

What is the real story?

Thanks.

 

[drvnbysound]

Think if it in terms of a camera looking at an object. If the object is 100-ft away it is a certain size.... once that object is 10-ft away it now appears much larger - even though it's the same object.

The PIRs see animals in a similar way (though not a camera)... which is why the manufacturers have their standard ratings - based on appropriate sized animals on the ground with the sensor mounted the height they specify. However, once that animal is higher, and thus closer to the sensor, it appears to be larger. The same is true for a spider or other pests that could crawl on the sensor itself... it then appears HUGE and is likely to set off the sensor.

 

[tmbrown97]

To add to that - the sensors have modified optics and tend to mount a little lower than normal sensors - to help them block out below a certain level and see more outward.

At my last house I had the 80lb pet immune Rokonet Dual Technology sensors - and I had about 5 false alarms in 3 years - generally due to the 16lb cat climbing too high - like jumping up onto a tall dresser, etc. The 27lb cat didn't jump much so he never set it off.

There are considerations for mounting motion sensors - you're supposed to point them away from exterior walls when possible - but also not point them towards stair cases; don't point them right at furniture that's too tall; etc. Also use either Dual Technology or Quad Technology sensors (they combine RF and Microwave which both must be tripped; in the case of the quad tech, there's two of each and all 4 must be tripped. Also cross-zoning helps - use a few more motion sensors around the house and require that more than one be tripped within a period of time before you consider it an alarm condition.

Motions are the best way to catch someone once they've made it past the perimeter of the home and gotten inside; unfortunately they're the cause of most false alarms. You need to take steps to minimize those; and beef up your perimeter protection to try to keep them from ever getting that far (good garage door detection, glass-breaks, security screens, etc).

 

[ano]

I'd also say, they really aren't "pet immune" its more like pet resistant. I would do three things, 1) as has been said, make sure your perimeter is solid, 2) do get pet immune sensors and follow ALL the instructions, and 3) use the cross-zoning feature for all internal motion sensors. Cross-zoning is a feature whereby one zone trip alone won't trigger the alarm. Instead two different sensors need to trip within a given period of time. A pet may jump, but likely it will stay in one area. Burglars don't stick around in one area. With pets that still isn't 100%, but its your best bet.

 

[KidCalledZero]

Thanks again for all the great info.

What is the reason for not pointing a motion detector towards an exterior wall?

 

[drvnbysound]

Thanks again for all the great info.

What is the reason for not pointing a motion detector towards an exterior wall?

I am no expert, but I believe they work off of thermal characteristics (it has been a while since I looked into it). Having said that, if someone walks by the window close enough the sensor can think they are inside... since there is no way to actually set a perimeter or give 'depth' to the sensor. Other than going off the sensors range characteristics.

I have heard of installations that are have motions that are aimed toward exterior windows and users reported that they are not affected as mentioned above, but it's something that you would want to try and avoid if possible.

I have a 40-lb Pet Immune Detector and a 12-lb dog, that does jump onto the back of our couch... hoping that a thief doesn't find a way in, and send in his 3-5 yr old
I have been very impressed with the range of the sensor I have. I have an open floor plan, with a motion sensor in my living room, which faces 2 entry doors in adjacent rooms. The motion is triggered as soon as I move around near either door - probably 24 and 35-ft away. I have tried to 'trick' them at night a few times to see how much I can move around undetected - about 6-8".

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I 'just' saw these Optex motion sensors at ISC West 2011 conference last week. Maybe check them out as they offer an adjustable dual beam for pet immunity that seems to me might be worth a shot.

 

[video321]

I 'just' saw these Optex motion sensors at ISC West 2011 conference last week. Maybe check them out as they offer an adjustable dual beam for pet immunity that seems to me might be worth a shot.

I was looking at those for my outside perimeter security to mount on the house. What makes them good for my intended purpose was they only project a beam ~3' out. So I was thinking of setting them to chirp the siren when tripped because that would mean someone is too close to my doors/windows. I'd don't think they would be of much use inside the house unless you mount them to project across banks of windows. Of course, you probably have some better ideas for these!

 

[tmbrown97]

the issues I read about had to do with changing thermal characteristics around the windows - wind blowing, sun penetrating, etc... I don't have enough first hand experience with this to say one way or the other. That said - in retrofits, wiring into your exterior walls is the hardest so I've always had mine on interior walls pointing outwards... with the added bonus that intruders see them through the windows and know they're there. Then again I've only installed Dual-Tech or better.

Regarding the children - I watched when my 2yr old walked around the house and it still picked her up even at a nice distance and she was only 18lbs. I'm not sure how it differentiated her from a 27lb cat (maybe if she crawled on all fours it wouldn't have?).

 

[video321]

Work-
I tested the same sensor as you and wasn't happy with the result. I've heard nothing but good things about the Sure Action pulsors so I'll be installing those instead. I'll place them in a couple key locations that someone would have to set it off. It's on the back burner though as I'm more concerned with the perimiter security - namely finishing up installing all 7 security cams. Plus, all doors/windows are secured along with glassbreaks. Keeping them outside and walking away is more important to me right now.

I always say to people about the alarm I'm setting up that all those glassbreak sensors are nice, but for them to go off means I still have a broken window to deal with.

I should say my biggest issue is there are 3 cats in my house and with all the furniture and deep window sills they're always jumping onto something. I'm sure that cross-zoning would still be a concern for me, but if you only have a single pet you should be alright depending on the install/type of pet/cross-zone settings.

 

[tmbrown97]

Well, unless you have acrobatic cats all flying through the house in unison, it's pretty unlikely they'd trigger more than one in a given day, let alone 60 second period... We might get 2 falses in a week because the same condition was happening (we left boxes near the dresser so the cat hopped up 2 days in a row); but we move the boxes and have no more incidents for 6 months.

That said, if you can do the pulsors and don't mind the cost - by all means! Out here we're mostly on slabs with no basements so that's not an option otherwise I'd do it in a heartbeat!

Agreed with the perimeter... if you want to keep them out before they even break the window, look into security screens - if they're removed or cut they alarm before they've even broken a pane of glass. IMO they're the ultimate way to go - because you can also leave your windows open and be fully protected.

 

[drvnbysound]

I didn't research it much and just went with Ademco Aurora Series PIR's, as I originally went with an Ademco panel... before I found the light that is HA

These are what I have: http://www.security.honeywell.com/hsc/products/sensor/mo/pi/21573.html

They are pretty inexpensive - about $10 ea.

 

[video321]

Well, unless you have acrobatic cats all flying through the house in unison, it's pretty unlikely they'd trigger more than one in a given day, let alone 60 second period... We might get 2 falses in a week because the same condition was happening (we left boxes near the dresser so the cat hopped up 2 days in a row); but we move the boxes and have no more incidents for 6 months.

I'm sure your right, but in my situation there was too much of a chance - LR has a large sectional and tower speakers that get jumped on, hallway/dining room area would pick them up on the dining room table and so on. Sure, small chance but it's there with 3.

Agreed with the perimeter... if you want to keep them out before they even break the window, look into security screens - if they're removed or cut they alarm before they've even broken a pane of glass. IMO they're the ultimate way to go - because you can also leave your windows open and be fully protected.

I did; even talked to the manufacturer down in Florida and got a sample. Absolute pleasure to speak with and was surprised at how reasonable the price was. However, when taking into consideration that most of the break-ins in my area were a brick through the back slider I took a step back and thought about it. I'd still like to get them, but it slid from the top of the list.

 

[tmbrown97]

However, when taking into consideration that most of the break-ins in my area were a brick through the back slider I took a step back and thought about it. I'd still like to get them, but it slid from the top of the list.

See that's just too bad... you even know where they're most likely to strike, but it'd be illegal to take the really effective countermeasures - like well-aimed tasers, crossbow on a trigger; shotgun with a bean bag round, etc.

All kidding aside, you can also do things like put a contact sensor on your gate and chirp a siren if it's opened outside of when you might expect it; or use some of the narrow-range outdoor motion sensors to detect someone peering in the window and give them a warning chirp; etc. If sirens aren't allowed where you live (they're generally outlawed here) then even a good GE Screamer right near the door is still pretty effective. And keep in mind that good drapes on the other side of the slider get in the way of glassbreak detection.

Of course you mentioned video, but that's only good for hopefully helping find them after they've done the deed; or for acting as a visual deterent.

Edit: You're already ahead of me on the narrow-beam motions

 

[KidCalledZero]

Thanks for all the input.

I ordered a few Bosch ds835i sensors yesterday and will cross them with a sensor to be determined later. Hopefully between the two, I wont be getting too many false alarms.

Thanks again!