Philosophical question - "Automation" vs. "Remote Control"

[Odeen]

Hi guys,

Regular lurker, HA newbie, and occasional poster here. I was planning out my modest home automation system (30 lights, 3 HVAC zones) when something hit me... I don't want to AUTOMATE my system as much as I want to make it more CONTROLLABLE - which implies manual, but remote, control, and the ability to control things the "old fashioned" way if necessary.

What does that mean?

It means that I don't really need the hallway light to turn on at sunset. I want to be able to turn ALL the lights off before leaving the house.

I don't want to keep my bedroom at 69 degrees after 5:30 PM in the winter. I want to turn on the furnace 15 minutes before I get home, whether it's at 2:30, 5:30 or 9:30. I also want to give myself a blast of hot (or cool) air in the middle of the night without getting out of bed.

Now, some control IMPLIES automation capabilities, such as macros on remote controls. But the emphasis is still different. I want MORE ways to DO stuff. Home Automation seems to be about not having to do stuff.

There are also implications in terms of device design.. I have another writeup ready to go if the mods don't deem this post to be too trollish or out of bounds....

 

[electron]

In the wiring closet, anything goes Always interested in what other people think, so do post.

 

[tmbrown97]

Odeen - that's not far off from where I had my last house... there wasn't as much automation as there was just enahnced control. I could lie in bed and use my iPhone to arm the alarm, turn off the lights, etc. About my only automation was controlling certain lights turning on as I entered the home (often with full hands); and scheduling my exterior and christmas lights.

I knew it'd taken hold when my wife complained about the temperature, and I watched her walk to the livingroom and sit down next to the touchscreen on the table to adjust it, rather than walk to the thermostat in the hallway

In this place, I'm admittedly going much further - now I expect that when I hit a "Goodnight" button on the wall, it'll set back the downstairs temperature, turn off all the lights downstairs, and arm the alarm... the disease is spreading!

 

[Lagerhead]

What does that mean?

How about "splitting hairs"?

 

[AnthonyZ]

How about "splitting hairs"?

I disagree. I view them as different animals. See this blog post...

 

[sic0048]

I do a lot of both. I have some automation built into my system. Primarily the automated parts are actions related to the armed status of my house. So if the alarm is armed away (and hence no one home), then certain automated events happen like turning off TVs, receivers, and most lights, as well as turning down the HVAC system setpoints, etc. When the system is disarmed, then perhaps a couple lights will turn on automatically.

However I do also have some events that are timed based. Like turning the "nighttime" HVAC setpoints back to "normal" HVAC setpoints at 6:30am everyday. Or turning on certain lights at dusk, etc, etc, etc.

But most of my system is more "user controlled" than automated. Esepecially when it comes to the A/V distribution system. There are a lot of different components that come together to make everything work. The automation system makes it appear as one unit to the end user.

So I see both being an important aspect of home automation.

 

[pbeaulieu]

You can not automate what is not controlled. So, automation is based on first being able to control the function.

 

[oberkc]

I suspect that to enable enhanced control will bring with it the unneeded ability to schedule events (automate). Most devices, I assume, required to give the enhanced control include the scheduling function. I believe, then, that your hardware and solution will be similar, regardless of whether you are trying to achieve added control or added automation or both.

I use insteon as lighting control, for example. If I wanted only "control", I could buy a bunch of insteon switches. I would then find that certain levels of control are based on "conditions" of these switches, so I need conditional logic. I also find that manually creating links to be burdensome. So I purchase an ISY-99. It solves my logic and programming problems. It also includes ability to automatically turn devices on based on time or darkness.

But the theoretical discussion is sure interesting.

 

[fcwilt]

Most of the cost and effort is in being able to control the hardware. Having gone that far the cost of adding in some automation is small - so most of the systems out there that give the control you want are also going to have automation capabilities. So ignore that part.

 

[apostolakisl]

I see your point, but the big step is getting remote control, automation is simply writing code so that a computer can do the remote controlling for you.

If you can use your telephone, computer, or iphone to turn the furnace on, then software can do it as well. So there really wouldn't be a cheaper system that is remote controllable but not programmable. Just don't buy the software/hardware automation systems that go on top of the remote controllable devices and you have your modestly less expensive system that increases control options but does not automate.

 

[fcwilt]

I see your point, but the big step is getting remote control, automation is simply writing code so that a computer can do the remote controlling for you.

If you can use your telephone, computer, or iphone to turn the furnace on, then software can do it as well. So there really wouldn't be a cheaper system that is remote controllable but not programmable. Just don't buy the software/hardware automation systems that go on top of the remote controllable devices and you have your modestly less expensive system that increases control options but does not automate.

Any system that can, say, receive a IR signal, decode it and determine that it needs to activate a relay or two on a HVAC system, or do one of dozens of other possible tasks, is going to have a processor. Once you have a processor you have the capability for automation.

So I don't see any chance for significant savings by dropping automation capabilities from a system that can handle a wide variety of control tasks.