Phone line help.

[Travis4710]

I'm going to hook up my phone line tomorrow, so I want to be sure I do it correctly. Does the following sound right for the telephone wiring?

Demarc point - Whole house Surge Suppressor - DSL filter - Telephone Distribution panel - ELK 950 surge suppressor - Elk M1

Thanks!

 

[tmbrown97]

Where's your RJ31X?  Is it in the Telephone Distribution panel, or do you not have one?  Just in case you're not familiar with what an RJ31X is, it's a special telephone jack for the alarm panel that goes in front of all the house phones - as the very first thing off the phone line; that way if the Alarm needs the phone line, it can seize the line no matter what's going on - outbound call, off-hook phone, incoming call, etc...  So it wouldn't be a chain like you listed above - there's a loop off the main line to the M1 then back to the rest of the house phones.
 
**** I just read up on the Elk 950 - it's not just a surge, it's an RJ31X too, but I'm leaving the above for others....
 
OK - so with that said, the Elk 950 needs to go in front of the distribution panel - so, the following:
 
DEMARC > Surge Suppressor > DSL Filter > Elk 950 Surge {to Elk M1 and back} > Telephone Distribution Panel

Note: I'm not sure how many people understand the DSL filters at the DMARC end, but if you're going to have DSL in your home, IMO it's the only way to go - using one splits the incoming line from the phone company out before ever going to all the jacks in the house, kinda like just having two phone lines - and keeps you from needing those irritating filters on every single phone... so much better! And if doing anything like running your phones through a gate control/intercom or into a phone system, it's about the only *right* way to do it that won't cause you to lose internet every time the intercom is used.

 

[Travis4710]

Where's your RJ31X?  Is it in the Telephone Distribution panel, or do you not have one?  Just in case you're not familiar with what an RJ31X is, it's a special telephone jack for the alarm panel that goes in front of all the house phones - as the very first thing off the phone line; that way if the Alarm needs the phone line, it can seize the line no matter what's going on - outbound call, off-hook phone, incoming call, etc...  So it wouldn't be a chain like you listed above - there's a loop off the main line to the M1 then back to the rest of the house phones.
 
**** I just read up on the Elk 950 - it's not just a surge, it's an RJ31X too, but I'm leaving the above for others....
 
OK - so with that said, the Elk 950 needs to go in front of the distribution panel - so, the following:
 
DEMARC > Surge Suppressor > DSL Filter > Elk 950 Surge {to Elk M1 and back} > Telephone Distribution Panel
Note: I'm not sure how many people understand the DSL filters at the DMARC end, but if you're going to have DSL in your home, IMO it's the only way to go - using one splits the incoming line from the phone company out before ever going to all the jacks in the house, kinda like just having two phone lines - and keeps you from needing those irritating filters on every single phone... so much better! And if doing anything like running your phones through a gate control/intercom or into a phone system, it's about the only *right* way to do it that won't cause you to lose internet every time the intercom is used.

Thanks W2P, you always have spot on answers. I should have mentioned that I am using the following Leviton 476TL-T12 which includes a dedicated security port. Would that change your wiring suggestion any?

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibcGetAttachment.jsp?cItemId=4YYWN1vms2dTgwybOpkhlA&label=IBE&appName=IBE&minisite=10251

 

[tmbrown97]

I wondered about that as a lot of the distribution panels do have them.  
 
That said, about the only thing I'd change is evaluating whether you need both the whole house surge suppressor and the Elk 950 - that's double the protection but I see nothing wrong with that (I'm spoiled - I live in an area where lightning is basically of zero concern - but if you don't, the M1 Modem is known to be a little sensitive).  If leaving both in, I'd use the Elk 950 as the RJ31X since it's a hair cleaner than Leviton's somewhat rigged security-port (The Elk uses a proper shorting bar so that if nothing is plugged in, it loops the phone line through automatically; the distribution panel seems to need a jumper in place if nothing is plugged in; either works though).

 

[Del91574]

DSL and filtering should really be done a different way, but it depends on how the house is wired....the issue is you can possibly create a situation where the seizure doesn't work properly....I've had to investigate forensically in a few installs after an incident occured.
 
The best solution would be to keep the full signal from the Dmarc to the 31X, install a filter designed for a 31X like those from Excelsior, then after the alarm, filter and split the signal as you see fit.
 
In the whole house scenario, discounting how the DSL is going to be filtered, it'd be DMARC>Whole house>Alarm surge>premise lines, and make sure the 2 surges are grounded to the same point.
 
In the Leviton case, you'd need to break apart a patch cord to get the T/R and T1/R1 for the Elk surge, then plug the alarm into that, and at that rate, it's easier to bypass the Leviton panel

 

[Travis4710]

DSL and filtering should really be done a different way, but it depends on how the house is wired....the issue is you can possibly create a situation where the seizure doesn't work properly....I've had to investigate forensically in a few installs after an incident occured.
 
The best solution would be to keep the full signal from the Dmarc to the 31X, install a filter designed for a 31X like those from Excelsior, then after the alarm, filter and split the signal as you see fit.
 
In the whole house scenario, discounting how the DSL is going to be filtered, it'd be DMARC>Whole house>Alarm surge>premise lines, and make sure the 2 surges are grounded to the same point.
 
In the Leviton case, you'd need to break apart a patch cord to get the T/R and T1/R1 for the Elk surge, then plug the alarm into that, and at that rate, it's easier to bypass the Leviton panel

Is this what you're speaking of Del?
http://productfinder.pulseeng.com/products/datasheets/EX137.pdf

 

[Del91574]

Exactly. That's what we use.
 
Then you filter the house as you wish downstream....
 
While some play around with DSL, filtering and alarms, as a pro I have to go with what I know factually is proven to work 100% all the time and is industry standard and can stand up to a lawyer arguing why or why not it was installed.
 
The telco around here, for regular DSL (not VDSL) some install the whole house filter and then break out the single homerun for the modem at the Dmarc, but the times I can say I've seen this done....not too many unless requested.

 

[Travis4710]

Exactly. That's what we use.
 
Then you filter the house as you wish downstream....
 
While some play around with DSL, filtering and alarms, as a pro I have to go with what I know factually is proven to work 100% all the time and is industry standard and can stand up to a lawyer arguing why or why not it was installed.
 
The telco around here, for regular DSL (not VDSL) some install the whole house filter and then break out the single homerun for the modem at the Dmarc, but the times I can say I've seen this done....not too many unless requested.

Excuse me in advance, as I am having a dumb moment here. It would be DEMARC>whole house surge>Elk 950 surge>Excelusis filter> Elk M1. How do I get back to the leviton box for phone distribution in the house?

Should I request the telco to do something special?

 

[tmbrown97]

The Elk 950 T's off the line - one leg to the M1, and a return back to the remainder of the house.  It loops through the M1 so it can seize the line if need be, but otherwise leaves the phones to the rest of the house.
 
The item that DEL listed is really intended for people who just tack on DSL on the line with the annoying filters at every phone - you still need something to protect the alarm panel in that situation so that's a simple plug-in fix.
 
Your original thought to use a whole-house DSL filter right where the line comes in and before the RJ31X and premise wiring is by far my preference over a multitude of filters around the house at each point.  I see no point in going back to point-of-use filters if it's done right as the first thing on the line.

 

[Del91574]

Not entirely true......
 
You need to be somewhat aware with DSL and how you filter and split it. In the specific case of the filter that was shown, the intent is to allow the alarm to 100% seize the lines and be filtered prior to returning the unfiltered signal downstream from the alarm panel. Using a whole house filter after the alarm panel is how I'd recommend it be done as a best practice.

The 950 and related 31X filter would protect the panel and everything else downstream if it's done properly. By protect, I am referring to surge and not filtering.
 
While it may or may not really be feizable, the intent is to have nothing impede the alarm from seizing the phone lines.
 
It seems that rereading that whole house is being interpreted as whole house surge, which it's not...it's not needed, but intended on how the wiring feeds the rest of the building, then seized, surged, filtered and returned to whole house distribution (and further filtering via whole house filter as the preferable method).

 

[Travis4710]

Not entirely true......
 
You need to be somewhat aware with DSL and how you filter and split it. In the specific case of the filter that was shown, the intent is to allow the alarm to 100% seize the lines and be filtered prior to returning the unfiltered signal downstream from the alarm panel. Using a whole house filter after the alarm panel is how I'd recommend it be done as a best practice.

The 950 and related 31X filter would protect the panel and everything else downstream if it's done properly. By protect, I am referring to surge and not filtering.
 
While it may or may not really be feizable, the intent is to have nothing impede the alarm from seizing the phone lines.
 
It seems that rereading that whole house is being interpreted as whole house surge, which it's not...it's not needed, but intended on how the wiring feeds the rest of the building, then seized, surged, filtered and returned to whole house distribution (and further filtering via whole house filter as the preferable method).

So you are recommending the following setup...

DEMARC>Elk 950>Excelsus DSL Filter> Elk M1> Whole house DSL filter> Phone distribution.

Is this correct?

 

[Del91574]

That's how I'd say. If you wanted to do belt/suspenders you could surge post the alarm panel, but if anything gets by the 950, you're in trouble anyhow.
 
Your run from your modem would be between the M1 and the whole house filter.