I've been considering a security/automation system soon, and would love to find a good deal out there (especially with Labor Day coming up in a couple weeks). I've been leaning towards an Elk M1 Gold Panel to hook in to the few x10 devices I recently came across and eventually adding security sensors. I don't have any pre-wiring for any of the security system and so I'll be wiring it myself. In terms of software, I know I'd like to use something, but have no idea yet what I'd probably end up with.
Planning a complete system, any upcoming labor day deals/coupons out there?
- Thread starter lostdog
- Start date
I dont think you can go worng with the ELK. Automated Outlet seems to be the dealer of choice of a lot of people on the forum (including me). They are very helpful and are competitively priced in my opinion (if you find it cheaper at another dealer call AO and talk to them before you buy in my opinion).
Remember to run plenty of wire. You will probably want fire, carbon monoxide, water, motion, and door/window sensors etc over time.
I personally put a zone expander on each floor to minimize wiring. It depends on the layout of the house and your personel taste.
Many software application play well with the ELK as do many hardware devices so you have LOTS of choices.
I have a single floor 1200sqft house. Access to most of the house via crawlspace under the house as well as in the attic (though its a tight squeeze). I've already done some wiring in terms of my computer network/television, but I expect that to be nothing compared to what I will be doing eventually. I've been doing a lot of reading in the last two weeks on various topics. There's a lot of stuff out there when it comes to some topics, but nothing when it comes to others.
I like the fact that CQC can use multiple computers to interact together, but have no clue if other packages have that ability. I'd also like to have something that could work with my BeyondTV setup. As background, I am a software developer, so more technical packages don't scare me, as I can write code.
IVB
Senior Member
My advice is to deal with the software side later. Get your hardware setup, wired, etc correctly, then worry about how to do the s/w side.
For Deals, create as large a first order (hardware wise) as you can, then contact Martin @AO directly to see if you can get a discount due to size of order. It's always easier to cut someone a break if they're dropping more change.
For Deals, create as large a first order (hardware wise) as you can, then contact Martin @AO directly to see if you can get a discount due to size of order. It's always easier to cut someone a break if they're dropping more change.
BraveSirRobbin
Moderator
Software developer! In that case make sure you read the Security System Install How-To 
!
Also the wiring guide is a good read.
http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=739
http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=6700
!Also the wiring guide is a good read.
http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=739
http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=6700
123
Senior Member
Most HA apps operate from a central host and do not support a distributed arrangement. Distribution offers more flexibility (and, naturally, requires more hardware) but I wouldn't discount an HA app because it lacks this feature. I use Premise and it supports a limited form of distribution where the host can communicate with applications (like drivers) running on remote PCs ... and I've found no need for it. Be sure to check out upstatemike's HA Comparison Sheet.
Dean Roddey
Senior Member
Distributed systems are actually quite useful. If you look at it purely from a single application standpoint maybe not. But if you have lighting and HVAC and multi-zone in the closet, then you have the home theater and all the gear in there, and then you have multiple places where you want to control local media devices and so forth (such as the living room.) All of those can be just one big system if you have a distributed automation system.
IVB
Senior Member
Well if we're gonna talk s/w, i'll give you my take on the immense power of a truly distributed computing platform. As you're technical, you'll appreciate this.
Distributed is inherently better as:
1) there are those of us who don't want all the equipment in one place because our houses are horridly laid out and must have been designed by Satan's Architect who had an awful sense of humor not that i'm bitter or anything.
I have 2 primary locations where stuff is run (media stuff is one place, home automation another). It would have been mind bogglingly complex and space consuming to put it all in the main floor where the media closet is, but I didn't want my media wires running to the basement where the HA stuff is cuz it's a PITA to get to. Using two primary servers allows a customized design.
2) Load balancing, no need to "put all your eggs in one basket" to start off with, and ease of re-architecture as your system matures. I started off with 3 primary servers (SageTV, HA, and CCTV/db/HA#2). My system is mature & stable enough that I dropped to 2 (SageTV/most HA/db, and CCTV/someHA).
I'm slowly dropping to 1 mega-server and 1 Intel Little-Valley type situation so that there's only 1 full power ATX machine and 1 20watt mini-PC driving it all. I'lll still want 2 so I don't have every damn thing running on a single box, but there's no way I can easily do that migration if I didn't have a truly distibuted computing but network-integrated platform that didn't rely on fileshares or other such hacks.
But, I still think you should forget all this sw nonsense, and go do all that wiring first. The HA applications world will change 18 times before you're done, check out the state-of-the-state then.
Distributed is inherently better as:
1) there are those of us who don't want all the equipment in one place because our houses are horridly laid out and must have been designed by Satan's Architect who had an awful sense of humor not that i'm bitter or anything.
I have 2 primary locations where stuff is run (media stuff is one place, home automation another). It would have been mind bogglingly complex and space consuming to put it all in the main floor where the media closet is, but I didn't want my media wires running to the basement where the HA stuff is cuz it's a PITA to get to. Using two primary servers allows a customized design.
2) Load balancing, no need to "put all your eggs in one basket" to start off with, and ease of re-architecture as your system matures. I started off with 3 primary servers (SageTV, HA, and CCTV/db/HA#2). My system is mature & stable enough that I dropped to 2 (SageTV/most HA/db, and CCTV/someHA).
I'm slowly dropping to 1 mega-server and 1 Intel Little-Valley type situation so that there's only 1 full power ATX machine and 1 20watt mini-PC driving it all. I'lll still want 2 so I don't have every damn thing running on a single box, but there's no way I can easily do that migration if I didn't have a truly distibuted computing but network-integrated platform that didn't rely on fileshares or other such hacks.
But, I still think you should forget all this sw nonsense, and go do all that wiring first. The HA applications world will change 18 times before you're done, check out the state-of-the-state then.
IVB, I'm actually familiar enough with your setup, since you're the reason I'm at this forum. I've been reading your "IVB HA Progress" thread over at AVSForum. Currently, I do have my BeyondTV server which is currently located next to the tv with all my home theater equipment. I can easily see moving this to my wiring closet, however when I go to install security cameras, I'd rather have a more concealed location to place that system, since I don't want someone walking off with the video evidence. And depending on where I place that server, it may be better to place my HA server in that location... But I need to figure out some of that before I start dropping cable runs, since I am hoping not to have to redo them as often as you have yours, IVB...
Rupp
Senior Member
Distributed systems require more power hungry hardware and in this day and age of high power costs the last thing we need is to increase the power consumption. Consider HomeSeer on a HomeTroller. The new HomeTroller only uses 10 watts of power and can run an entire household from your wiring can or closet. It can be managed from any web browser in the world. HomeSeer also offers a couple of ELK plugins that will expand on the Elk's capabilities.
http://www.hometroller.com/
If you already have the PC then a 30 day trial of HomeSeer is available here:
http://www.homeseer.com/downloads
http://www.hometroller.com/
If you already have the PC then a 30 day trial of HomeSeer is available here:
http://www.homeseer.com/downloads
IVB
Senior Member
True, but that will actually draw more power overall in this particular situation while also limiting functionality (see distributed systems post above). Why put in the extra 10W appliance if he's already got a BTV server? That same PC can be used for CQC/HomeSeer/whatever. I have a single PC running SageTV/CQC/Database/File/TTS/music, and it doesn't break a sweat.
Dean Roddey
Senior Member
The fact that it's distributed doesn't make any more power hungry. You can run CQC on a tiny mini-ITX system and it can act as a server for one or more clients around the home. And, in the end, it's a practicallity issue. Do you want to run all kinds of cable from the closet to the home theater? Or just put another mini-ITX system in the theater and only require one LAN connection to the home theater. Of course you could put two completely disconnected systems into place, but with a distributed product they are one system, and you can still, while in the theater, control your whole home, see the front door camera, see security system information, etc... You can completely shut the whole theater system down when it's not in use.
And, of course there are often various computers in use throughout the home because people are working at them. With a distributed system, when you are at your work computer you can have complete access to the automation system, and control any local hardware that you only need to control when you are there in the office/bedroom working. And again, when you aren't working, just shut it off. But when you are there, you are completely tied into your automation system, plus able to control local hardware or run local network data feed drivers and so forth.
So it's very flexible, and it can be used either way. A client/server based system can be run on one machine, or 10 machines, depending on your needs. Definitely for large professional installations, a dstributed system is a must. We have clients that have 15 or more interfaces around the home and multiple local concentrations of hardware. They have to have a distributed system to tie that all together into a single automation solution.
Though not very applicable to the home user, another example is that we are installing some systems in a couple weeks that are managing conference rooms. It was a requirement to have local control, but they also want a single central location to be able to set up calls and control the hardware for the people in the conference room, and they want very flexible user interfaces to do it. We could never have gotten that gig if we told them to just run a web browser to control the rooms and installed completely disconnected systems in each room. They wanted a much more tightly integrated solution.
And, of course there are often various computers in use throughout the home because people are working at them. With a distributed system, when you are at your work computer you can have complete access to the automation system, and control any local hardware that you only need to control when you are there in the office/bedroom working. And again, when you aren't working, just shut it off. But when you are there, you are completely tied into your automation system, plus able to control local hardware or run local network data feed drivers and so forth.
So it's very flexible, and it can be used either way. A client/server based system can be run on one machine, or 10 machines, depending on your needs. Definitely for large professional installations, a dstributed system is a must. We have clients that have 15 or more interfaces around the home and multiple local concentrations of hardware. They have to have a distributed system to tie that all together into a single automation solution.
Though not very applicable to the home user, another example is that we are installing some systems in a couple weeks that are managing conference rooms. It was a requirement to have local control, but they also want a single central location to be able to set up calls and control the hardware for the people in the conference room, and they want very flexible user interfaces to do it. We could never have gotten that gig if we told them to just run a web browser to control the rooms and installed completely disconnected systems in each room. They wanted a much more tightly integrated solution.
IVB, I'm actually familiar enough with your setup, since you're the reason I'm at this forum. I've been reading your "IVB HA Progress" thread over at AVSForum. Currently, I do have my BeyondTV server which is currently located next to the tv with all my home theater equipment. I can easily see moving this to my wiring closet, however when I go to install security cameras, I'd rather have a more concealed location to place that system, since I don't want someone walking off with the video evidence. And depending on where I place that server, it may be better to place my HA server in that location... But I need to figure out some of that before I start dropping cable runs, since I am hoping not to have to redo them as often as you have yours, IVB...
lostdog, Check out MainLobby's integration with BeyondTV. You will feel right at home as the default provided UI is very similar to BTVs standard (approved for use by BTV).
http://www.cinemaronlineforums.com/forum/v...p?p=73870#73870
And yes, MainLobby can run everything on one PC, or MLServer on one, BeyondTV server on another, MainLobby client on a third (or fourth / fifth / sixth etc) and your iPhone as another UI possibility.
For the SageTV fans, we now have 2 way integration with Sage as well. Having MainLobby control Sage's HD Extenders and remote clients is a wonderful thing
