Help choosing an alarm panel

[facesnorth]

Writing in this forum primarily to ask your opinion on which security panel I should choose.  I've been installing burg systems as an installer for about a year and a half now, primarily the DSC 1864/32 w/ T-Link, RF5132, etc (though I haven't programmed these from the backend, only front end programming through the PK5501 keypads).
 
Some of my fellow alarm installers have given praise to Ademco systems.  I see the Honeywell Vista 20p is reasonably priced now.  I'd be looking at something like this with the 6160RF keypad + another non-RF keypad.  I have 17 double hung windows on my 1st floor, 7 on the 2nd floor, 3 exterior man doors and a single garage OHD.
 
So both of those systems are fairly inexpensive, and I don't think I'd have any problem with either installation or programming.
 
Prior to working in the burg field, I spent about 4-5 years installing and configuring home automation systems.  Primarily Savant, AMX, RTI and URC.  I can't afford Savant.  AMX can often be purchased affordably through eBay, so it's a consideration.  RTI is a strong consideration, since I can get a good discount on their products.  I may go with an XP-6 based system.  Alternatively, I've been exploring the current DIY options such as Homeseer, Vera, and CQC, but it's been a while since I've really looked into the DIY offerings, and I'm not quite sure how these stack up.
 
I'd always heard good things about the Elk M1 Gold, but since I intend on putting in an automation system of some sort, and I don't think the M1 is enough in this department for me, I'm not sure I can justify the cost.
 
So I am basically looking for opinions on which of these systems you would suggest for my situation, as I intend to incorporate them into an automation system, and I'll probably continue this post in the automation forum where I'm seeking help choosing an automation platform.  There may be some overlap between these 2 threads, but I'll try to minimize it.
 
Also, I know smokes shouldn't be wired into the security panel (though you'd be surprised how many commercial installations specify it....with 2 wire smokes even) so please suggest a fire panel and smokes that I should look at for my home as well.  Would also like to monitor dangerous gases, particularly CO.
 
I have no problem wiring many of these devices.  Obviously windows and doors would be a lot easier to use RF, but WAF / aesthetics are very important, with the devices relatively disappearing as flush mounts, and I can't justify the exhorbitant costs on a ton of RF decices, though perhaps a few.
 
Possibly interested in security and/or fire monitoring, but unlikely.  I do not use POTS.  I presently only use Google Voice through an Obihai.  I also have configured Incredible PBX on a Raspberry Pi 2 that I'd like to utilize eventually with my system.  I will probably set up voip.ms as a secondary backup dialplan.  I'm not interested in spending much money per month on monitoring.  If you have an inexpensive monitoring solution that might work, please let me know.  If there's a way to connect a cellular device to these panels without an exorbitantly expensive plan, I would consider that as well.  I use pre-paid cell services, so I'd think I should be able to have some kind of pre-paid plan last quite a while since it will get used little to none.  However, I mostly want to be alerted myself to my phone when zones are breached, and have quick and easy access to my cameras.  And also be alerted if we are sleeping or in the backyard, etc.  I had once looked into exterior sirens that displayed sort of a red-white-blue police type strobe which I thought would attract attention and instill fear, but I couldn't find anything I really liked.
 
I'm also interested in Keyless entry.  Particularly being able to program things like one-off or scheduled entry codes, etc.  Being alerted upon entry.  But living in region 5, it ranges from below 0 up to and over 100 throughout the year, and I'm not sure I trust the installation of these devices to latch year-round.  Also, I'd like at least ANSI grade 2 if not grade 1 door locks, which reduces my options somewhat in this area.
 
Cameras.  I have experience installing Axis, Mobotix, Vivotek, Hikvision and others.  Hikvision offers a decent picture for the cost, so I would probably lean in this direction.  I would however, like a dedicated hardware NVR.  I'm not crazy about BlueIris, and I'd like to take the strain off my NAS (a FreeBSD server using ZFS).  I'm not crazy about the Hikvision NVR's.  I do like exacQvision, Milestone and Avigilon, but I don't love the licensing.  Not sure yet what I'll do here.
 
Similarly interested in incorporating some kind of intercom to the doorway and maybe some cool chime sounds into the multi-room speakers, both from the doorbell, and also eventually from a driveway probe.

 

[ano]

Hello and welcome:
 
From reading this it seems like you have a bit to learn, unfortunately you didn't say much about what requirements you have. What is your definition of "Home Automation?"  Controlling lights from a phone or lights that are smart and control themselves? Do you even want to control lights? Blinds and shades? You did mention locks. How about HVAC? Anything else?
 
I'm also confused by your statement of not connecting smoke detectors to the security panel?  Where would you connect them too? I have never seen a fire panel in a residence but I guess you could if you had a giant home.  I guess you need to decide on monitoring first. If your not going to have your security panel monitored, and you get an insurance discount for doing so, what do you want it to do?  By the way, few alarms are monitored with POTs today, most prefer to use the Internet, and if you go that route you could get cellular backup and you need to make sure it stays up if power goes out. (Most panels have POTs ports, but an VoIP adapter converts to Internet. True base Internet monitoring is still evolving.)
 
So for UL security it takes either a simple panel like a DSC or Ademco, or if you want to add some basic home automation, an ELK M1 or one of the Leviton OMNI's. Not a whole lot else.  If you want to add Homeseer or CQC or another PC/Linux based system for more "smarts" you still need one of the above panel choices for security and connectivity to the PC software. If you forego security you don't, but security and fire protection should be at the foundation, but you should consider monitoring. You can get it for about $10/month or even less sometimes.
 
Cameras can be combined or separate. The Leviton Omni can control cameras at a basic level, but you may want to keep that separate.

 

[facesnorth]

Sorry, I didn't want to ask too much about automation in this forum, since there is a separate sub-forum for that.  I only touched on it, to provide context for my needs in a security panel.  I just made a more fleshed out post on my automation options in the automation sub-forum.
 
My home is modest.  I'd be happy to connect the smokes to the security panel, I've just read that it's not ideal.  I'm fine with doing it if it's considered suitable.
 
Do insurance companies only provide the discount with monitoring through a monitoring company?  I guess I'd be interested to know what the absolute cheapest option is which provides the discount.  I believe the company I sub for uses a service called COPS.  It may be the cheapest option for me.
 
It might be best if you look at my automation post first and then we can continue the discussion.  I didn't know how it would be taken if I posted too much on automation in the security subforum.  Thanks.

 

[elvisimprsntr]

I have an Elk M1G for security and the UDI ISY994iZW for lighting and automation. The two have bidirectional communication and either can be controlled thru the other.

I partition automation programs between the two. Security sensor status events are in the Elk. Time and more complicated automation programs all reside in the ISY.

Luckily my house was already wired for an alarm and a cheap Napco panel, so all I had to do was replace the panel with the Elk and reuse all the existing sensors and siren. I started with just a few automated lights and added on as I saw a need and devices were on sale.

I have several IP cameras and I use ZoneMinder on an old Linux PC to record and archive all the video.

There are a number of mobile apps which run on Android or iOS for touch and remote control.

 

[ano]

Sorry, I didn't want to ask too much about automation in this forum, since there is a separate sub-forum for that.  I only touched on it, to provide context for my needs in a security panel.  I just made a more fleshed out post on my automation options in the automation sub-forum.
 
My home is modest.  I'd be happy to connect the smokes to the security panel, I've just read that it's not ideal.  I'm fine with doing it if it's considered suitable.
 
Do insurance companies only provide the discount with monitoring through a monitoring company?  I guess I'd be interested to know what the absolute cheapest option is which provides the discount.  I believe the company I sub for uses a service called COPS.  It may be the cheapest option for me.
 
It might be best if you look at my automation post first and then we can continue the discussion.  I didn't know how it would be taken if I posted too much on automation in the security subforum.  Thanks.

Yes smokes and CO detectors connect to the panel.  I shouldn't say you only get an insurance discount if its not monitored, you get a bit, but not much. Say $15 for alarm, $75 for monitored. Your results may vary. If your house catches fire when your not home, you could have the best alarm in the world, but if the fire department doesn't know, then the insurance company doesn't save money.  You can get monitoring for $10/month, so it won't be free, but it will help.
 
USUALLY most people make the security part of their setup the front-end for automation. I used to use a OMNI Pro II for security, along with some of its automation, then connected to it with Homeseer at one time, then CQC another.  In my current house I only use the Omni Pro II.  It controls Somfy for shades, UPB for lighting, Zigbee for locks and thermostats and lights. It has 32 wired zones, 48 wireless zone, email, voice, and even controls my LED signs.  For a smartphone I use HAIku to control it. It can control cameras but I don't and it can control other options I don't use. The advantage is no PC. A PC can be a double-edged sword because they are never that reliable and constantly need Windows updates. I don't miss not having a PC a bit.

 

[Del91574]

From reading the OP, it seems like there's a lot for you to learn in the industry. This is coming from someone that spent the first 15 years in the trade installing residential and commercial burglar and fire alarm systems prior to moving into enterprise grade solutions and being a high level integrator. My resume is out there as is my background. I'm not a hobbyist.
 
You need to consider first and foremost, DSC is an entry level and low end panel/solution. Always has and always will be. It's a product sold for a particular price point and bulleted features list that may or may not be complete.
 
When it comes to burg panels, usually at the level and price point you're mentioning, you're looking at a limited feature set and price structure. Most installers at that level will steer towards the ones they're familar with comfortable programming. Again, this is coming from someone who literally has programmed EVERY manufacturer on the market.
 
As far as security goes, with integration alike, you need to get into a platform that can talk to X or Y, which pretty much gets you into Elk or HAI....difference being about 3X the cost going the HAI route vs. modular.
 
The best route would be to get something that can truly integrate and go open platform as much as possible and offload the high level automation to a 3rd party and have the alarm talk to that intermediary.
 
You're going to need to sit down and decide performance vs. price point. Your post lists from basic consumer level devices all the way to enterprise level hardware. There's an in-between point, but as they say, you can't have champagne tastes on a generic beer budget. You need to consider performance first and foremost. That $500 Elk can do 100X what a DSC can do on the back end, but if all you're concerned with is a basic noisemaker and open/closing of doors/windows, you're not going to see the value.