Power Distribution ELK PD9HC and Battery Questions

[Peter_H]

Hi Guys,

I started a similar post in the Elk forum. I don't mean to double post but I've started looking at some of the Altronix modules as well and thought the post would be more appropriate here.

I'm trying to understand when and why you would use power distribution models. I just bought my ELK system with the following.

Elk M1GKS
2 - KP2
2 - M1XIN
1 - M1XOVR
1 - M1EXP
1 - M1DBH
1 - Elk-Wk1
1 - ELK-45
3 - Peizo sirens
1 - ELK-SP35
4 - ELK-SP12F
8 - Blue Line PIR
3 - 5825A Glass break sensor

It was recommended that I run the 8 PIR's on separate power from the M1. I then did some more reading and saw recommendations of running all of the expansion modules also on separate power from the elk. However, I also see posts of setups with about the same equipment as my setup with no power distribution modules.

Can you guys clarify when to use power distribution modules? What is good practice? Also, are they always on or is there a trigger from the M1 to turn them on? From my above setup, I would need 1 PD9 if I wanted to just put the motions on separate power. Is there any benefit to sticking with the ELK PD9 over the Altronix units?

It was also recommended that I get an additional battery. If I but another battery with charger, how do I wire this in? Should the second one power just the PD9?

Are there power distribution modules that handle 12v and 24v? The reason I ask is I have also purchased a 24v power supply that I will be using with the M1XOVR for sprinkler, irrigation control (5 zone).

Thanks,
Peter

 

[wuench]

Hi Guys,

I started a similar post in the Elk forum. I don't mean to double post but I've started looking at some of the Altronix modules as well and thought the post would be more appropriate here.

I'm trying to understand when and why you would use power distribution models. I just bought my ELK system with the following.

Elk M1GKS
2 - KP2
2 - M1XIN
1 - M1XOVR
1 - M1EXP
1 - M1DBH
1 - Elk-Wk1
1 - ELK-45
3 - Peizo sirens
1 - ELK-SP35
4 - ELK-SP12F
8 - Blue Line PIR
3 - 5825A Glass break sensor

It was recommended that I run the 8 PIR's on separate power from the M1. I then did some more reading and saw recommendations of running all of the expansion modules also on separate power from the elk. However, I also see posts of setups with about the same equipment as my setup with no power distribution modules.

Can you guys clarify when to use power distribution modules? What is good practice? Also, are they always on or is there a trigger from the M1 to turn them on? From my above setup, I would need 1 PD9 if I wanted to just put the motions on separate power. Is there any benefit to sticking with the ELK PD9 over the Altronix units?

It was also recommended that I get an additional battery. If I but another battery with charger, how do I wire this in? Should the second one power just the PD9?

Are there power distribution modules that handle 12v and 24v? The reason I ask is I have also purchased a 24v power supply that I will be using with the M1XOVR for sprinkler, irrigation control (5 zone).

Thanks,
Peter

You add up the power requirements for all your devices and if you are over the limits of the aux bus you will need to split the power. The PD9 is always on, it has it's own power switch, it does not communicate with the elk. I have them on my Elk Aux power bus, mostly for convenience of wiring, but you could also use terminal strips to break things out. I use terminal strips to break out my sprinkler wiring.

With what you have listed you probably won't need to worry about powering anything separately, except the M1XEP which is on it's own power supply. I have a similar setup and have no power issues running off just the Aux bus. I do have a separate elk power supply and battery, but I use that to power my M1XEP, router and switch. I have pictures of my setup in at the link in my signature.

 

[Steve]

Yea, all those things are pretty low current draw and you should be ok. You can look at power draw directly on the Elk when its hooked up, menu 8 iirc off the top of my head.I like to use supplemental power once you start going over 1 amp. You will need to use a separate supply if you use a typical siren or stuff like door locks and other high current devices.

 

[Peter_H]

Yea, all those things are pretty low current draw and you should be ok. You can look at power draw directly on the Elk when its hooked up, menu 8 iirc off the top of my head.I like to use supplemental power once you start going over 1 amp. You will need to use a separate supply if you use a typical siren or stuff like door locks and other high current devices.

Thanks guys.

Wuench: You have a super clean setup. Thanks for sharing the pics, it helped clear things up.

What is typical draw for a PIR? I looked at my order again on Automated Outlet and I am not see the current draw listed.

Is the Elk-45 a typical siren? If not, what is an example of a typical siren?

Do I need another battery or will the current one suffice?

Regarding the PD9HC, are there any cons to always using this device instead of the PD9? For example, is there a concern with it outputting too much current? If not, why not always use this instead of the regular PD9? Do others use the PD9 to power expansion modules or only PIR's?

 

[wuench]

You will need to start looking at manuals and add up the current draw. Per the manual for the Bosch Blueline ISM-BLP1 it draws 10ma in standby and 18ma in alarm. I would use the 18ma in my calculations. You can also get similar numbers for you glass breaks, Elk-45 etc.
Add them up, stay under 1 amp (1000ma).

As for additional/bigger batteries, that more of a judgment call. It will provide additional runtime. So your best bet is to hook it all up with the battery you got, pull the plug and see how long it will run. If you are comfortable with the time fine, if you feel you want it to be up longer then add more battery capacity. You can try to calculate it, but nothing beats a real life test.

As far as the PD9/PD9HC, if I had to do it all over again, I would probably just have used terminal strips. All you are really doing is breaking out your connections, there really is very little value-add IMHO. Terminal strips save money and save space in your enclosure.

 

[Peter_H]

You will need to start looking at manuals and add up the current draw. Per the manual for the Bosch Blueline ISM-BLP1 it draws 10ma in standby and 18ma in alarm. I would use the 18ma in my calculations. You can also get similar numbers for you glass breaks, Elk-45 etc.
Add them up, stay under 1 amp (1000ma).

As for additional/bigger batteries, that more of a judgment call. It will provide additional runtime. So your best bet is to hook it all up with the battery you got, pull the plug and see how long it will run. If you are comfortable with the time fine, if you feel you want it to be up longer then add more battery capacity. You can try to calculate it, but nothing beats a real life test.

As far as the PD9/PD9HC, if I had to do it all over again, I would probably just have used terminal strips. All you are really doing is breaking out your connections, there really is very little value-add IMHO. Terminal strips save money and save space in your enclosure.

Ok, sounds good. I think I got it all now. Sorry for all the newb questions. We just had a breakin at the house a few days ago. I've been eyeing the Elk for a few years now and with the recent events, it was immediately time to order one.I haven't even received the parts yet, they will arrive tomorrow, I just wanted to make sure I had everything I needed and knew exactly what I was doing to make it all go smoothly and quickly. I pre-wired half of the house with window/door contacts, PIR drops already.

I'll start pulling up all the manuals online and do the current calculations.

 

[electron]

The PD9(HC) also gives some protection, since it won't allow everything to blow up if one of the wires short out. I like mine, I just wish it could deliver more current, so I will probably upgrade to something beefier next time I redo things.

 

[Digger]

The PD9(HC) also gives some protection, since it won't allow everything to blow up if one of the wires short out. I like mine, I just wish it could deliver more current, so I will probably upgrade to something beefier next time I redo things.

What are you powering that you need more than 400 ma per output? I have used the Altronix, Preferred Power and Napco fused distribution boards that are rated for a few amps per output (5 total though) and also the PD9HC and prefer the PD9HC as it is self restoring (allowing me to work live and not take the whole system down if I short something stripping and connecting a wire).

 

[WayneW]

What are you powering that you need more than 400 ma per output?

My Uplink unit requires 2A, which would be 5 of the PD9HC outputs. Many sirens draw more than 400 mA.

 

[Digger]

What are you powering that you need more than 400 ma per output?

My Uplink unit requires 2A, which would be 5 of the PD9HC outputs. Many sirens draw more than 400 mA.

I dont put PD9's on the siren. The uplink might not trip the PTC's as it is a very short pull for the 2 A (less than a second transmission) and PTC may not react that fast. Actually starting to design a radio transmitter at work. Trying to do it without a seperate power supply. There may be a way but we are still working out some kinks.

 

[signal15]

I am just using the onboard stuff until I trip the PTC, and then I'll buy a separate power supply and move some stuff over to it. I just checked the menu on the keypad and I'm only using 340mA right now anyway. I think I'll plug my industrial toaster into it.