Premise Premise Z-Wave support?

[TheKeeper]

Hello!

Dan R. pointed me in this direction to look into Premise.

I've been using home automation since I bought a Home Control Concepts product called HomeBase in the early 90's, and have been using HS for about 5 years. I'm looking to set up another home automation system for a brick-and-mortar store that my wife is looking to start up in a few months, and am considering Premise.

Looks like there's a lot of support for legacy devices like the JDS TimeCommander and X-10, which is good, and also some of the newer devices like the W800RF32, which is also good. The one other interface that I need support for is Z-Wave. I see there has been a lot of progress on the Z-Wave interface support lately, and I have a couple questions.

It looks like the only interface that's supported is the VRC0P? That's not a big deal, since I'd have to buy an interface anyway (I use a SmartStick with HS, and have a spare SmartStick, but I'd need to buy another one anyway to make sure I have a spare). How do you tell one VRC0P from the other, knowing that there appears to be different revisions? And is it true that the VRC0P is only used as a secondary controller? If so, what would one use as a primary?

Thanks,
Chris

 

[etc6849]

The new VRC0P will have a +3 on the back of the module. Same model number though, and there's even some protocol differences.

Yes it's a secondary controller and the only one that's supported in Premise. I would think any primary controller that's upgradable will work with the VRC0P, but I'm not sure. I use the ControlThink ThinkStick and the Leviton Vizia RF Installer tool. The RF Installer software lets you use one useb stick to program multiple networks.

I would recommend buying a used VRC0P or RZC0P from ebay (unless you must have lock support). The VRC0P +3 firmware is too new to use on its own. I will not be finished with the VRC0P +3 modifications for at least a week or so anyways and Leviton is looking into an issue I'm having with the firmware. Read the other thread "Zwave Sensors" for more information.

 

[TheKeeper]

The new VRC0P will have a +3 on the back of the module. Same model number though, and there's even some protocol differences.

Ok, thanks for the info. When I'm ready to move forward (I'm going to give the X-10 [any idea if the 1132CU is supported? I can't tell, but there's one way to find out...] and the JDS TimeCommander support a shot first, and see how easy it is to work with Premise), I'll check with the various sellers to find out the version number.

Yes it's a secondary controller and the only one that's supported in Premise. I would think any primary controller that's upgradable will work with the VRC0P, but I'm not sure. I use the ControlThink ThinkStick and the Leviton Vizia RF Installer tool. The RF Installer software lets you use one useb stick to program multiple networks.

Oh, yeah, that sounds like a plan. Use a standalone controller with its own management software, not relying on the home automation software itself to manage it, and then replicate to the Vizia.

I would recommend buying a used VRC0P or RZC0P from ebay (unless you must have lock support). The VRC0P +3 firmware is too new to use on its own. I will not be finished with the VRC0P +3 modifications for at least a week or so anyways and Leviton is looking into an issue I'm having with the firmware. Read the other thread "Zwave Sensors" for more information.

Actually, I do need to have lock support -- I have a Schlage set up with HS, and I like how it works, so we've already bought a Schlage lever lock for my wife's store. (The Atom 330 system that I'm setting up for her store is the one that's possibly going to be running Premise.) But I have enough to keep me entertained right now, checking to see how I like Premise with X-10 and JDS TimeCommander, and I can add on the Z-Wave interface later.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[macromark]

Actually, I do need to have lock support -- I have a Schlage set up with HS, and I like how it works, so we've already bought a Schlage lever lock for my wife's store.

Sorry... really didn't want to hijack this, but I'm curious... why not just use HomeSeer for your 2nd site too?

 

[TheKeeper]

Sorry... really didn't want to hijack this, but I'm curious... why not just use HomeSeer for your 2nd site too?

I certainly did consider this, and it looks like tenHsServer might be a way to have two HS copies talk to each other.

But the reason why I'm looking at Premise is because I'm having too many problems with Z-Wave under HS right now, and I'd like to see how Z-Wave behaves under Premise.

There doesn't seem to be any "interrupt protection", for lack of a better phrase at the moment, in HS. Z-Wave device commands are being mixed up with Z-Wave polling traffic, and wreaks havoc. I ended up having to completely disable the polling of one of my thermostats after I woke up to a cold house in March because somehow the thermostat got changed to "cooling" mode and a setpoint of 95 degrees (should have been "heating" and 65 degrees). Not only do none of my scripts involve the mode (the CT30's mode status reporting is basically broken and cannot be fixed, so there's no point in even asking for "mode"), I don't even have thermostatically controlled cooling.

There needs to be a queuing mechanism to queue Z-Wave device commands until after a polling request has completed. In order to reduce the delays incurred with queuing the device commands, one should be able to poll for only specific pieces of information from the likes of a thermostat (again, especially knowing that there's no point in polling for "current mode"), and more precisely control when a poll can take place (e.g. wait until no motion sensors have triggered in areas that contain Z-Wave devices for at least 15 seconds before polling).

Chris

 

[macromark]

I certainly did consider this, and it looks like tenHsServer might be a way to have two HS copies talk to each other.

But the reason why I'm looking at Premise is because I'm having too many problems with Z-Wave under HS right now, and I'd like to see how Z-Wave behaves under Premise.

There doesn't seem to be any "interrupt protection", for lack of a better phrase at the moment, in HS. Z-Wave device commands are being mixed up with Z-Wave polling traffic, and wreaks havoc. I ended up having to completely disable the polling of one of my thermostats after I woke up to a cold house in March because somehow the thermostat got changed to "cooling" mode and a setpoint of 95 degrees (should have been "heating" and 65 degrees). Not only do none of my scripts involve the mode (the CT30's mode status reporting is basically broken and cannot be fixed, so there's no point in even asking for "mode"), I don't even have thermostatically controlled cooling.

There needs to be a queuing mechanism to queue Z-Wave device commands until after a polling request has completed. In order to reduce the delays incurred with queuing the device commands, one should be able to poll for only specific pieces of information from the likes of a thermostat (again, especially knowing that there's no point in polling for "current mode"), and more precisely control when a poll can take place (e.g. wait until no motion sensors have triggered in areas that contain Z-Wave devices for at least 15 seconds before polling).

Chris

Chris - give me a call (offline) when you have a moment. We do have some answers.
Mark

 

[etc6849]

Z-wave works great with the VRC0P v1 and Premise. I've spent at least a 100 of hours on it and two other very knowledgeable HA folks helped develop the driver too (and did most of the work). If you use an older VRC0P, you'll never have to do anything beyond initial setup.

The newer style VRC0P will be fine in a few months... I think. The thing is it's the first firmware version (Leviton completely redesigned it), but it is firmware upgradeable. My only issue with the VRC0P v3 is it needs a reset after many commands. Leviton was able to replicate the issue; hopefully they get back to me soon In Premise you can also run several z-wave networks. I ran two networks for many months using a VRC0P and an RZC0P. I plugged the RZC0P into a Lantronix UBox

If you are using Vizia products elsewhere, I would definitely use a Leviton USB stick or the ControlThink stick for a primary controller. I have a 42 node network and everything works great.

I don't know about X10 controllers other than what's listed in the Premise wiki. I'm assuming they use the same protocol over several models, so it may work?!?

 

[xlurkr]

I could never get the 1132CU to work. I think it was working at one time with Premise, but an update to W2K or XP that contained USB changes killed it, and it hasn't worked since. I gleaned this from some posts in the original Motorola forums. If you do try it, let me know how it turns out.

-Tom

 

[TheKeeper]

Huh. Are there any recommended USB X-10 PLC interfaces? There's no link from the Premise wiki about X-10 hardware, and I've been searching for the last 15-20 minutes... Looks like the CM11A works, but that's not readily available anymore and isn't USB...

Thanks,
Chris

 

[etc6849]

No X10 USB support that I know of, unless it shows up as a virtual COM port that SYS can then use. However, you can make USB drivers using the Premise SDK. I don't think it's worth the time and effort though. I would just order older style X10 stuff from ebay.

 

[Aaron]

Will there be support for AEON Z-Stick anytime soon?

 

[etc6849]

Not unless someone is willing to add it... Everyone here uses the RZC0P, VRC0P or VRC0P +3 with Premise. Having a serial controller makes more sense over USB anyways. Think about hooking a VRC0P to a Lantronix WiBox (or any serial port server) that's 100 feet away from your HA server... I bet that's a lot harder with USB!

 

[Odeen]

Not unless someone is willing to add it... Everyone here uses the RZC0P, VRC0P or VRC0P +3 with Premise. Having a serial controller makes more sense over USB anyways. Think about hooking a VRC0P to a Lantronix WiBox (or any serial port server) that's 100 feet away from your HA server... I bet that's a lot harder with USB!

D-Link SharePort
It's actually pretty easy.

That said, actually using a USB interface is probably a lost cause in Premise, especially compared to having all the technical details abstracted away by the VRC0P. After all, thanks to the VRC0P, the Vizia driver is essentially a fancy text string processor.

 

[etc6849]

Will such a usb port work for something other than a printer... I know I wanted to use one with a USB display, but read online that this wouldn't work. If it works, please let me know There's a few cheap USB displays out there I'd like to use with Premise.

At any rate, leviton has posted an update to the new VRC0Pv3: http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCZzpHome.jsp?minisite=10024&respid=22372

Maybe it will fix the issues I'm having with it and a large numbers of commands.

VRC0Pv3 original firmware:
$Leviton(C) 2008 V2.3S/Z-Wave 3.11

VRC0Pv3 new firmware:
$Leviton(C) 2008 V2.31S/Z-Wave 3.11

VRC0P:
$Leviton(C) 2008 V1.5/Z-Wave 2.09

 

[johnlaroux]

Will such a usb port work for something other than a printer... I know I wanted to use one with a USB display, but read online that this wouldn't work. If it works, please let me know There's a few cheap USB displays out there I'd like to use with Premise.

At any rate, leviton has posted an update to the new VRC0Pv3: http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCZzpHome.jsp?minisite=10024&respid=22372

Maybe it will fix the issues I'm having with it and a large numbers of commands.

VRC0Pv3 original firmware:
$Leviton(C) 2008 V2.3S/Z-Wave 3.11

VRC0Pv3 new firmware:
$Leviton(C) 2008 V2.31S/Z-Wave 3.11

VRC0P:
$Leviton(C) 2008 V1.5/Z-Wave 2.09

I tried the new firmware update and it failed part way through. Now I cant get it to do anything at all. Its probably a $100 brick now.