Question about wiring guide....

SnyperBob

Active Member
Hi Guys,

Here's an excerpt from the wiring guide, "Wiring your new house 102":

"Depending on how much you plan on installing automation, you can wire the house without 3-way (or 4-way, etc) switches. Then install the loads in out of the way locations and put multi-button remote control at the locations where you normally would have had switches. When you do this, it eliminates the "switch banks" that normally crop up around the doorways, especially exterior doors. Very versatile, and it removes a lot of visual clutter"


I've read about this being very useful and very effective. Can someone explain how to do this (I'm finishing and redoing parts of my house). I want to explore this option, and point it out to the electrician.

What does 'install the loads in out of way location' mean? Does this mean to basically put the light switch for a light in an out of the way closet? Do this for all switched lights in a room? And then put controllable switches on each of these (in the closet), and they put a multi-button remote control in the main room?

Please clear this up for me. What is some hardware that would work for this type of setup (What brand/model multi-button remote, switches, etc).

Also, please help clarify how the wiring would be set up. The wiring guide says multi-button REMOTE control. Does this mean it does not need power run to it? I'm confused, lol
 
I can give you an example of what i believe they are talking about. In my house when i wired it, almost all the load controlling switches are in the basement. I use 8 button keypads in the entrances to each room and the entrance doors. I started long ago using X10 keypadlinc's but have since switched to HAI UPB 8 button keypads. Doing it this way i didn't need any 3 or more way switches or those banks of switches that are everywhere. The keypads are what control the load switches in the basement and the switches themselves never get touched. For me it kept things simple and uncluttered looking. I so hated that bank of 7 switches that my first electrician wanted to install at my front door. it was down right silly.


Hi Guys,

Here's an excerpt from the wiring guide, "Wiring your new house 102":

"Depending on how much you plan on installing automation, you can wire the house without 3-way (or 4-way, etc) switches. Then install the loads in out of the way locations and put multi-button remote control at the locations where you normally would have had switches. When you do this, it eliminates the "switch banks" that normally crop up around the doorways, especially exterior doors. Very versatile, and it removes a lot of visual clutter"


I've read about this being very useful and very effective. Can someone explain how to do this (I'm finishing and redoing parts of my house). I want to explore this option, and point it out to the electrician.

What does 'install the loads in out of way location' mean? Does this mean to basically put the light switch for a light in an out of the way closet? Do this for all switched lights in a room? And then put controllable switches on each of these (in the closet), and they put a multi-button remote control in the main room?

Please clear this up for me. What is some hardware that would work for this type of setup (What brand/model multi-button remote, switches, etc).

Also, please help clarify how the wiring would be set up. The wiring guide says multi-button REMOTE control. Does this mean it does not need power run to it? I'm confused, lol
 
I can give you an example of what i believe they are talking about. In my house when i wired it, almost all the load controlling switches are in the basement. I use 8 button keypads in the entrances to each room and the entrance doors. I started long ago using X10 keypadlinc's but have since switched to HAI UPB 8 button keypads. Doing it this way i didn't need any 3 or more way switches or those banks of switches that are everywhere. The keypads are what control the load switches in the basement and the switches themselves never get touched. For me it kept things simple and uncluttered looking. I so hated that bank of 7 switches that my first electrician wanted to install at my front door. it was down right silly.

ok, so let me visualize this. Instead of having 7 switches in plain view by your front door, they're located in the basement? And then you just have one 8 button keypad by the door and controls all of the switches? That makes sense then.

Let me know if that's how it works. What special 'switches' do you use in the basement then?

Is this a similar 8 button remote:
http://www.automatedoutlet.com/product.php...=175&page=1

And is this something like you would need for in the basement (the 7 switches):
http://www.automatedoutlet.com/product.php?productid=813

So if you put in 7 of the HAI switches in the basement, that means you can control them from any room that has the 8 button remote? ie...I could control my garage lights from my bedroom (if needed, lol)?
 
ok, so let me visualize this. Instead of having 7 switches in plain view by your front door, they're located in the basement? And then you just have one 8 button keypad by the door and controls all of the switches? That makes sense then.

Let me know if that's how it works. What special 'switches' do you use in the basement then?

Is this a similar 8 button remote:
http://www.automatedoutlet.com/product.php...=175&page=1

And is this something like you would need for in the basement (the 7 switches):
http://www.automatedoutlet.com/product.php?productid=813

So if you put in 7 of the HAI switches in the basement, that means you can control them from any room that has the 8 button remote? ie...I could control my garage lights from my bedroom (if needed, lol)?

Sorry to jump in. You got it almost right. The switch you linked is an auxiliary switch, the equivalent of the 2nd half of a 3-way, that needs to be wired to a dimmer. The dimmer does the load control. Try this one. All of your loads need a "load control" dimmer/switch witch is then controlled by a remote switch or multi button remote in the room.
 
I can give you an example of what i believe they are talking about. In my house when i wired it, almost all the load controlling switches are in the basement. I use 8 button keypads in the entrances to each room and the entrance doors. I started long ago using X10 keypadlinc's but have since switched to HAI UPB 8 button keypads. Doing it this way i didn't need any 3 or more way switches or those banks of switches that are everywhere. The keypads are what control the load switches in the basement and the switches themselves never get touched. For me it kept things simple and uncluttered looking. I so hated that bank of 7 switches that my first electrician wanted to install at my front door. it was down right silly.

ok, so let me visualize this. Instead of having 7 switches in plain view by your front door, they're located in the basement? And then you just have one 8 button keypad by the door and controls all of the switches? That makes sense then.

Let me know if that's how it works. What special 'switches' do you use in the basement then?

Is this a similar 8 button remote:
http://www.automatedoutlet.com/product.php...=175&page=1

And is this something like you would need for in the basement (the 7 switches):
http://www.automatedoutlet.com/product.php?productid=813

So if you put in 7 of the HAI switches in the basement, that means you can control them from any room that has the 8 button remote? ie...I could control my garage lights from my bedroom (if needed, lol)?

That's exactly right, Almost all of my load controlling switches are in the basement. The only ones showing are where there is only one switch. I like the HAI Keypads because they have status LEDs that light up when they are on. Some of these are linked to switches directly others are linked through HomeSeer for control. Yes you can program any button to do anything weather it is to control a switch directly or a scene or whatever you like, including turning off your garage from the bedroom keypad. There are places that i have more than one keypad. Like the kitchen, i use one for lighting directly and another for scenes and to show other rooms in the house that have lights on. One button of almost all the keypads i use as a voice mail waiting indicator so i know if it's lit there is voice mail waiting. You really can put anything on them you want. It doesn't matter what brand of switches you use, so far all the ones I've tried work with each other, once they are programmed into upstart. Any keypad would work but so far I've only found HAI has LED's in each button to show status. I like the look of some of the others a little better but no status led is a deal breaker for me with a keypad.

One other thing, this doesn't have to all be done at once. I still have places that have X10 in place and i just as easily control an X10 switch through a link as well as a rain8 relay board, depending on what software you use of course.

Your link for the keypad is exactly what i use, however i don't use any of the companion switches. since i don't use any 3 or 4 way circuits there is no need for them, i use the 35A00-1 600 watt dimmers mostly but any upb load controlling switch would work. I use HAI often mostly because i get them at cost if our distribuiter is feeling generous that month :(
 
ok, one more stupid question.....

How is the 8 button remote wired in each room that has one. Is it wired as if an 'outlet' were there and you just replaced the 'outlet' with the remote pad? Or is it wired as a three way with one light.....so the keypad is 'one switch' for the three-way, and the other switch is then in the basement?

Does my question make sense? I would think you would need constant power there to be able to control the light at any time, so I would think it would almost be wired as an always hot outlet.

Thanks guys:)
 
ok, one more stupid question.....

How is the 8 button remote wired in each room that has one. Is it wired as if an 'outlet' were there and you just replaced the 'outlet' with the remote pad? Or is it wired as a three way with one light.....so the keypad is 'one switch' for the three-way, and the other switch is then in the basement?

Does my question make sense? I would think you would need constant power there to be able to control the light at any time, so I would think it would almost be wired as an always hot outlet.

Thanks guys:)

Yes it's wired as though it were an outlet, hot, neutral, ground, in fact i looped each floors room keypads as one circuits. Since there is no load on them, beyond the LED's, it didn't matter much.

Just to clarify, the keypads do not control a load, the switches do that, the keypads only send and receive data. Again, no 3 way switches in my house, they were not needed since the keypads can control everything. I have several places where a button on one keypad is controlling the same switch as on another keypad. like top and bottom of stairways. Since the keypads control the switch there is no need to put in a 3 way circuit.
 
Wow, thanks for the fast reply. That's really sweet how that all works. I'm going back to the drawing board and coming up with some new electrical ideas to point out to the electrician. Thanks again for the information, it helped clear everything up :(

Edit: One more question, would it be a good idea to run cat5 to each pad controller's location? I saw in the wiring guide they said it's a good idea to run cat5 to each keypad, but I wasn't sure if that was security system keypad, 8 button lighting pad, or both. Thanks!
 
Wow, thanks for the fast reply. That's really sweet how that all works. I'm going back to the drawing board and coming up with some new electrical ideas to point out to the electrician. Thanks again for the information, it helped clear everything up :(

Edit: One more question, would it be a good idea to run cat5 to each pad controller's location? I saw in the wiring guide they said it's a good idea to run cat5 to each keypad, but I wasn't sure if that was security system keypad, 8 button lighting pad, or both. Thanks!

The only time i see a need for cat5 wiring at the keypads is if at some point you may want to go to a wired, as opposed to powerline type of keypad, or if you at some point think you may replace the keypad in some locations with a touchscreen controller.
 
Nightwalker, what kind of enclosure are you using for the switches?

Not quite sure what you mean but they are really not in enclosures, all switches and keypads are in nylon, deep boxes. Each switch is in the basement under where it normally would go, just a floor down. I initially thought about a central location for them all in the equipment room but that was a ton of extra wire and with the price of copper it was getting out of hand.
 
Not quite sure what you mean but they are really not in enclosures, all switches and keypads are in nylon, deep boxes. Each switch is in the basement under where it normally would go, just a floor down. I initially thought about a central location for them all in the equipment room but that was a ton of extra wire and with the price of copper it was getting out of hand.
The reason I'm asking is that PCS makes a nice white powder coated enclosure that holds 20 600 watt dimmers/switches. It's really slick but comes with a $400 price tag. I'm going to fabricate my own unless I can find something more reasonable off the shelf.
 
Not quite sure what you mean but they are really not in enclosures, all switches and keypads are in nylon, deep boxes. Each switch is in the basement under where it normally would go, just a floor down. I initially thought about a central location for them all in the equipment room but that was a ton of extra wire and with the price of copper it was getting out of hand.
The reason I'm asking is that PCS makes a nice white powder coated enclosure that holds 20 600 watt dimmers/switches. It's really slick but comes with a $400 price tag. I'm going to fabricate my own unless I can find something more reasonable off the shelf.

I'll have to go look that up. I didn't know anyone made such a thing. Like you i'd be hard pressed to spend $400 for it, considering none of my switches show anyway. I suppose that had i decided to do the central location something like that would have been pretty slick but at again at $400 i would have been making my own anyway.
 
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