Recommendations for monitoring companies

[newalarm]

I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations for monitoring companies. I was looking at Alarm Relay as the price seemed reasonable. Here are the issues.

I have an M1G with M1XEP. I am doing this install myself and am not in the trade.

I would like to have monitoring for the following:
Smokes
CO
Burglar
Water
and eventually Gas

I would like to have the M1G dial the monitoring company out on VOIP line with internet as a backup. I would also like to get email notifications of trouble as well so i can keep tabs on things.

I realize that if my cable goes down or is cut, I am in trouble so I may look a cellular backup later, or a hardwired phone.

What experience do-it-yourself users out there have with their companies? I assume that some companies will help you set up and trouble shoot issues?

Also, do companies charge additional fees for backup up system (primary: phone, Secondary: internet or cellular)?

Thanks.

 

[PhillyTim]

I'm also interested to know people's experience, as I'm currently planning to go with Alarm Relay after years with ADT. Their pricing is great--but they do charge extra for cell-based backup (price goes from $8.95 per month to $23.95 per month). The reviews over at diysecurityforum for Alarm Relay are very positive. I can't comment on their tech support as I'm not yet a customer, but it appears they do have a support package that costs extra, so the base service presumably includes no support beyond initial setup.

I don't follow how Internet is a backup to VOIP, or how a hardwired phone would be a backup either; supposedly a sophisticated thief would cut all non-power lines they could find outside your house, rendering everything dead except a cell backup (I would love to see some hard data on how often this actually happens). It would be great to have service brought in at an upper level--which might be doable if you're using your cable company for phone / Internet and thus you can just connect to Coax that you run internally to your wiring closet (I'm using FIOS--now way would Verizon agree to thread it through the walls!).

Alarm Relay does offer IP based monintoring and will follow your protocol if they don't get a ping from your home (I think they said the ping occurs every 5 minutes)--but if you're away are you really going to ask them to send the police just to find your Internet provider was having an outage? Plus, that has the potential to be a fairly long delay (in terms of a break-in) before they even call you. There is a one time charge for the IP based monitoring ($140 if I remember correctly), but the monthly remains the same--$8.95 or $23.95 with cell backup to IP.

I'm currently leaning toward standard phone-based monitoring, but certainly the IP-based monitoring with the cell back up would probably be safest option to ensure they get alerted to a problem, and can in turn alert you.

 

[michelkenny]

Alarm Relay is the one I hear about the most here, with Next Alarm second.

Note that 95% of the time your alarm will not be able to call out properly over VOIP, as the analog to digital conversion screws up the modem tones. You should be looking at a cellular backup like the HAI C3 or the Uplink unit.

There are mixed reviews about using internet for monitoring, there are very few places that support it and because of that their set up usually isn't that reliable.

 

[chrisexv6]

+1 to Kazibole.

VOIP wont be reliable, for me I didnt even think of it as an option. Im plugging my M1 into my VOIP service, but it will be the backup and doesnt cost any extra. Im making cell service primary since its the most likely to NOT go down in a storm, etc. and should technically be the hardest to cut/jam. I thought about internet monitoring but dont think its worth the extra $$$ since its pretty easily cut at my house (just snip the incoming cable wire).

I didnt go with an online monitoring company, but if I did I was very interested in GeoArm. They sell Uplink monitoring at a pretty decent cost (about the same as Alarm Relay once you REALLY get into setting up Alarm Relay and find out its not 8.95 for cell), when I emailed them for pre-purchase support they were always good about getting back quickly, etc. I didnt get into details about their monitoring though (physical CS? UL Listed? etc), but its another (one of only a few I found) option for Uplink/cell monitoring.

 

[newalarm]

I just contacted Alarm relay. Base price is $8.95 plus the set up fee. If you want internet also, the total set up fee is $50 and they help you set up the M1XEP. They will help you with the set up make sure everything is reporting properly and help you test it.

It seems like the additional fee is if you need another level of support with setting up (devices etc...). They don't seem to charge additional fee for adding devices, as long as it does not require technician on their part.

Cellular is additional 12 to 15$/month. Most devices (Telegard, Uplink, DSC, Alarm.com) are 12 and their is one device that is the 15 (forget the brand). I don't know how it works if you have your own SIM card and pay a regular cell company such as ATT or other??? I have not yet done my research on cellular...

 

[Del91574]

I can't stress it enough to most people, but I would not consider recommending TCP/IP monitoring to be a primary unless the network and hardware are up to commercial or enterprise grade service and hardware...there really is that big of a difference.

All of the dialer units I've dealt with will not take a 3rd party sim or service to use the hardware on another network that is not supported by the normal host (C24, Uplink, Telular). Not saying some DIY'er with a day and a half worth of time and multiple phone calls couldn't get it to work, but there's really no point in doing it in my view.

As far as pricing goes, from the dealer standpoint, even using a cell as a primary, the CS is going to end up having essentially 2 accounts with 99% of the hardware out there, it's how the data gets ported from the cell provider into the CS receiver.

 

[apostolakisl]

I have both my home and office on alarm relay. They are perfectly proficient and very reasonably priced.

I would suggest forgetting about doing cellular later as a backup and do it now as your primary. Cellular if done through an hai c3 unit (or there is another brand that works the same that i forget off the top of my head) does not cost extra. They only charge extra for the ones that they cover the cellular service contract for.

With the hai c3 you get an att prepaid for $100/year and use it as your one and only. It is very reliable and damn near 100% hack proof. It wires up exactly the same as if it were a land line and from alarm relays point of view it is a land line.

Trying to go with IP is going to give you headaches, will not be as reliable, and will end up costing more when you figure out you need a backup.

 

[Del91574]

A HAI C3 is an alternative for a DIY'er, however there is no supervision or trouble output back to the host panel, only when the line goes missing or a FTC condition exists, so I would warn people to look closely, apples to apples, when considering a cellular unit. I don't use them, but I'm sure someone with one could chime in, does the C3 provide voltage to keep the panel happy to make it think a valid phone line is there at all times, irregardless of actual cellular service? What happens if the cell goes out, low battery or otherwise, how are you notified? Sometimes cheaper isn't necessarily better.

As far as who is better than the next, that could be up for debate. While AR is perfectly acceptable to most for service related items, in my case, I serviced a bunch of orphaned systems monitored by them. Any zone changes or templating issues could not be addressed by the "tech" that answered the phone. They also were unable really provide me what the raw data going to them was so I could verify proper operation while awaiting the amount of time it was going to take for a "tier 2" to perform templating changes. Again, may be acceptable for DIY to save money, but as a pro, it's unacceptable service level practice.

 

[apostolakisl]

I look at this as probability. The most likely reason that your comm is down and simultaneously your house is being robbed, is because the burglar caused the comm to be down.

Everything could go down, but cell towers don't go down except after major major disasters and even then only after a day or 2 when their batteries/generators caput. . . and by that time your alarm panel would also be down. The same holds true for POTS lines, they rarely go down except similar disasters. However, POTS lines are susceptible to tampering whereas the c3 is not. Most homes have an obvious entry point for the phone that a pair scissors or a firm yank could make short work of defeating. The same holds true for your dsl/cable connection so IP monitoring for most homes is also easily defeated.

You can have your communication supervised, but if you aren't home it does no good. Or, worse yet, you are home and the comm went down because an intruder is a murderer or rapist. If someone walks up to your house, yanks the wires at the demarc, your alarm will be displaying a message that comm is down. All the while the burglar is stealing your stuff or your family is being tortured. Defeating the c3 would mean jambing the cellular signal. Any crook who is that sophisticated isn't going to be bothering with my house.

The c3 has a very powerful antenna so in the vast majority of locations it has access to several towers, meaning that if one goes down, there are others. I think the need for that is pretty much zero, but it is there anyway. The c3 also has a 24 hour plus built-in battery.

Setting your system up to do weekly test calls to the monitoring co should suffice for most home owners. Alarm Relay allows that. You could also set your Elk to call you every morning instead of using an alarm clock for added confidence.

 

[PhillyTim]

Just checking out the HAI C3 page (http://www.homeauto.com/Products/C3/C3.asp). It's an impressive device, and sounds incredibly easy to use. I love the idea--and I'm intrigued by this part; "the central monitoring station will be able to call your home through the C3 to verify the alarm condition." So that must mean that you provide the monitoring station the number associated with the GSM SIM card, and the C3 routes the incoming call to your home phone line, which is a very cool feature.

So, if your home phone is down and someone tries to make a regular old phone call, one would assume all the phones in the house would get the C3's "emulated line signal," in which case you're outbound phone calls would be using the GSM network? Presumably you can hear the difference in the dial tone to know this is happening?

This seems like a great option--and saves $44 per year over the option of Alarm Relay picking up the cell backup minutes (based on the $12 per month increase sited above).

The only issue I see is that when the carriers fully switch over to LTE and desupport GSM, I assume the H3 will be a paper weight, correct? Of course that's presumably several years out, if not more.

 

[newalarm]

HAI C3 looks like a good product, but It does not seem like that much of a savings. at $12/month, that is $144/year. It is not a huge saving. I have not dealt with prepaid in years but remembers weird issues like monthly deductions and other that would deplete the credit quickly. Plus the issue of it not being monitored. I hear Lou Apo about weekly calls, but that would not help if the HAI C3 goes down prior to a robbery/attack.

What about the cellular devices that would be used in the $12/mo Alarm relay system... Are there any recommendations of brands/model numbers?

 

[newalarm]

I was looking at the uplink 2500. Seems like you also need to buy a M1-XSP? Is there no way of wiring directly to the Control?

 

[chrisexv6]

I was looking at the uplink 2500. Seems like you also need to buy a M1-XSP? Is there no way of wiring directly to the Control?

Not that Im aware of. Its the setup that I went with (I didnt want to deal with a SIM card, having to have prepaid minutes to worry about, etc). They can be found on Ebay, unactivated, to save a little money. So can the XSP but the prices usually arent that low (I managed to get 2 XSPs for an absolute steal but from what Ive been seeing it doesnt happen often)

 

[apostolakisl]

So, if your home phone is down and someone tries to make a regular old phone call, one would assume all the phones in the house would get the C3's "emulated line signal," in which case you're outbound phone calls would be using the GSM network? Presumably you can hear the difference in the dial tone to know this is happening?

Yes, if you plug your telco line into the c3 input, then plug the wire going to all of your stuff into the output, it does exactly what you just said.

HAI C3 looks like a good product, but It does not seem like that much of a savings. at $12/month, that is $144/year. It is not a huge saving. I have not dealt with prepaid in years but remembers weird issues like monthly deductions and other that would deplete the credit quickly. Plus the issue of it not being monitored. I hear Lou Apo about weekly calls, but that would not help if the HAI C3 goes down prior to a robbery/attack.

What about the cellular devices that would be used in the $12/mo Alarm relay system... Are there any recommendations of brands/model numbers?

Prepaid att is $100/year for 1000 minutes that don't expire for one year. If you renew prior to one year with another $100 the minutes carry over. But you won't need anything near 1000 minutes. Or for $10/mo you can add a line to your att service plan. T-mobile probably has something similar.

And as far as going down prior to an attack. Certainly anything can break at anytime. But if you test once per week, and your risk of home invasion on any given day is say 1:1,000,000, then at most your random bad luck chance of having the unit break and you not know about it for 6 days (because you are so unlucky that it broke right after it tested itself) is 1:170,000. Conversely, I would say that a pre-planned robbery or attack by even the most stupid attacker would involve a snip-snip of the phone lines to the house meaning that with POTS is 100% chance that it would be broken during an invasion.

The only system that would be fool proof is a constantly monitored "hear-beat" type system. There are radio systems, telephone systems, and IP systems that do that, but they cost far more money to monitor. A long long time ago when I was about 12, we had an alarm that was continuously monitored by phone. Until the phone company realized that such phone lines were 100% occupying a circuit and raised the price like 10x. It worked well and only had a single time where the phone lines went down and it "false alarmed". Then we switched to a radio system. It worked very well also and never had a false alarm. Then I grew up and went to college. IP systems with the heart beat would be very prone to false alarms unless you have enterprise level systems (T1 line, and top of the line switching/routing).

 

[Del91574]

Lou,

Respectfully, your reasoning, information and understandings are incorrect. Probability has nothing to do with this at this point, it the nature of how cellular works and whether or not you feel comfortable in taking the chance of connecting a critical system like an alarm to a glorified cell phone with no feedback to the host system. I'd offer for you to come visit some of our larger installations and sites to provide some real world examples to see how the hardware performs vs. an item like the C3.

Cell towers go down a heck of a lot more often than many people are aware of. If you were to look into an actual cell unit and supervise the dBm and which "side" (A or B) the cell is communicating on at any time, it's very easy to see and watch and provides worlds of information. It's also easy to see when the tower(s) hand off and the signal starts going to another tower. Their infrastructure isn't as robust as you alluded to, with backup generators and backup times with redundant systems...it's just not the case or real life installations. We've had to troubleshoot cellular communications routes and in doing such, we found many areas where upgrades or service being done in "off peak" hours causing the units to change to another tower. Not an issue if you can hit another tower with at least the minimum amount of "bars" but if it's marginal, that's when it starts to manifest further.

I haven't tested a C3, so I can't tell you the results, but if the C3 is down for whatever reason (AC loss, bad battery dragging down the supply, etc.) does it provide emulated POTS voltage on the connection so the panel knows it's still connected or not, same goes with normal operation? If not, the only time you would be alerted to any issue would be a missed dialer test or a FTC indication, fact.

At least with a true cellular communicator, there's either bidirectional serial or data bus communication or a STC relay that can be connected to a supervised zone to indicate at the host panel that something isn't right.

In the case of the Uplink 2500, you can hook it up to the M1's bell output or a voltage trigger, but you're only going to get summary data, either burg or fire, not full data tranmission, without a serial connection.