replace Stargate

dgeffs

Member
I've had a Stargate for almost 10 years and while it has performed moderately well it continues to develop new issues almost every month. I really not impressed with its stability and want to replace it with somehting else. I've looked at all the usual suspects like HAI, Elk, Homevision, Adicon and probably a few others.

My concern is the programability of some of these units. Stargate is fairly complete and has normal programming constructs like if/then/else plus and/or logic with lots of flags, variables and most everything needed to contruct complex sequences. I'm not sure which of the other units are comparable. Do any offer nested if/then/else statements?

I don't need touchscreens, security or keypads and will probably have to purchase an Ocelot to handle the large amount of IR I need. I do need analog/digital inputs, outputs and multi zone IR plus X10. It suddenly occured to me that the Ocelot along with some add ons might actually go a long way towards replacing most of the funtionality of Stargate with the exception of the phone interface which I don't use at present (too buggy and not reliable at all).

I know this forum is heavy on Elk users but I'm not sure what the Elk would buy me and what about the programming constructs? Anyone have good/bad experience with the Ocelot plus add on modules?

Dale
 
I can speak about the HVPro (Homevision Pro). It offers everything you were asking for (IR (including multi-zone), analog and digital I/O, nested if/then, timers, and/or logic, lots of flags/variables,etc, X10). It also supports UPB (and maybe Zwave, but I don't know since I don't use it).

It also has a phone interface which seems to work fine (I don't really use it - haven't had the need yet). I have mine integrated with my Caddx security system - no issues at all.

In addition, it supports email, webpages, and TV screens (for information or control). I have mine on my home network and can access it locally or remotely (from hotel rooms, etc). There is a new programming package (XL) that is really powerful.

I'd be more than happy to help answer any questions if they come up. (I'm not affiliated with Homevision - just a very happy user)
 
Dale-

I have been looking at replacing my Stargate for a long time; not because I am unhappy but because I always want to have a plan B ready in case the Stargate platform goes away for some reason.

So far I have not been satisfied with any of my options so I am still looking. Unlike you, I use my phone board a lot for paging announcements through my Panasonic phone system. I also use all 80 digital inputs and a lot of relays plus RS-485 devices like RCS thermostats and especially RCS 7 button LED annunciator/keypads.

Even this simple combination of things has been hard to reproduce in a single product and when you add in things like IR and a rich complex logic engine, it gets hard to duplicate it with even 3 or 4 other products.

HomeVision and Ocelet are going to be your closest hardware matches or you might want to consider PowerHome, CQC, or Homeseer if you are up for learning some new software and integrating a LOT of individual bits of hardware.

I'll be interested to learn what you finally settle on as being a step up from Stargate.
 
Another option just occurred to me. If they ever get the 2.x JDS plug-in for Homeseer working you could start learning slowly and gradually migrate functionality from your Stargate to Homeseer. Eventually, after everything is moved over, you can just shut down the Stargate without any negative impact. If something doesn't work at first, you can leave it on Stargate till you get it figured out... no nasty "cutover" time pressures!
 
upstatemike said:
I'll be interested to learn what you finally settle on as being a step up from Stargate.
I'm not sure a step up exists. Sure, there is some neat stuff possible with HAI but the programming just doesn't look as capable. I've already got HS and another piece of software isn't a big deal in terms of learning or cost. However, I want a stand alone controller not one that requires a PC to operate.

Glad you are happy with your SG. My phone/audio board has been out more than it has worked and the relays seem to die after a while. I'm running very low current through them like a switch closure for a garage door or firing a larger current relay for sprinkler control. I have a pretty good knowledge of electronics and understand the power limitations of the on board relays. I've had better luck with the RCS add on relays. I have to reset it weekly to clear flags that have been working for years and now they get out of whack. I don't have a clue what could cause this and no programming has changed.

If JDS would put a little effort into the product instead of removing features I might be convinced to buy another. But as it is that ain't gonna happen. Too bad.

Dale
 
Do things run better for awhile after you re-download your schedule? If flags are getting "stuck" it could be that part of you schedule is corrupted in memory. I have fixed some pretty weird behaviour with a fresh schedule download!
 
Thinking Ocelot? Boy, have you ever stepped into my arena!

As you said in your first post, the Ocelot can pretty well do all the IF/THEN logic of the Stargate and is the controller with the language closest to that of the Stargate. The only difference is that some sequential logic will need to be broken up into a few seperate routines, but the methodology will always be the same. You might also gain a few more programming possibilities because of the lower level of the programming language. In the Stargate, instructions that introduce a delay assign a timer internally. In the Ocelot, you actually choose a timer and then look for it reaching a certain value in another program segment. Like you Stargate, you can add *lots* of digital inputs...into the hundreds if you need. You can also add output relay modules, IR output, and a talking module (the Speakeasy) to make voice announcements. Like you said yourself, pretty well everything except the phone functionality. Also in your particular case, you might be interested in the Insteon add-on project that I created that allows the Ocelot to send (but not receive) Insteon commands.

If you add an Elk M1 to the mix, then you will be able to do phone interfacing if you want, much more complete Insteon support, and you'll get a nice alarm panel. The IF/THEN language of the M1 is also quite Stargate/Ocelot-like but much more basic. You quickly run out of rules memory if you try to do very complex logic. As I've said before: an Ocelot plus a M1 makes for a very capable combination.

The nice thing about the Ocelot is that you could start slowly, with just the Ocelot and maybe a SECU16 8 input, 8 output module. For less then $250 you should be able to try all the complex logic you want. I know the Ocelot quite well and so do others here like BSR and John Bullard...we'll help you out!
 
As a Stargate user for about 10 years, I have also been looking for the past few years for the next best thing. I have come to the same conclusion as others - it doesn't exist.

But if Stargate disappeared tomorrow, I agree with Upstate that I would go with either Homevision Pro or Ocelot - those two appear to be the only ones that even come close to Stargate's capabilities. HV Pro seems to have the same concept as SG - stand alone operation, add-on modules, relays, Caddx, RCS Thermos, etc. I'm curious about how well HV Pro works with HomeSeer.

I just pray that my SG doesn't let me down.

Mark
 
Does anybody know any details about the new RCS controller? Supposed to be similiar to Stargate but uses a card cage approach for expansion???
 
upstatemike said:
Does anybody know any details about the new RCS controller? Supposed to be similiar to Stargate but uses a card cage approach for expansion???
What? I was just at the RCS website and saw nothing new.

Mark
 
It's not on their website. I've just seen posts (on other boards) from people who have seen it at various trade shows and such. I don't know when it is supposed to be available but I'd sure like to learn some more details about it.
 
bfisher said:
I can speak about the HVPro (Homevision Pro). It offers everything you were asking for (IR (including multi-zone), analog and digital I/O, nested if/then, timers, and/or logic, lots of flags/variables,etc, X10). It also supports UPB (and maybe Zwave, but I don't know since I don't use it).
My very first controller was a Homevision. It is still sitting in my closet and much to my amazement CSI offers an upgrade and will discount the HVPRO by $300 for an old Homevision unit.

Looks like there are a few differences between Ocelot and HVPRO and now I just need to make a decision on which features are most important to me. Even with the discount it looks like the Ocelot will be much cheaper but that isn't the only criteria.

Glad to see there is someone here running Homevision.

Dale
 
Mark S. said:
I'm curious about how well HV Pro works with HomeSeer.
Sorry - I'm not running HomeSeer with my HVPro... haven't had the need. If I find someone that is, I'll try to get some information.
 
This topic seems to creep up montly now on Cocoontech! I'm certainly in the same crowd as someone who would indeed get off the Stargate platform if I found something that would provide what stargate lacks, however it's been difficult to find, without combining many different pieces together. I have enough unique workarounds in my house (For one example, Stargate controls ceiling fan with RF remote hardwired to stargate- not a great solution but it works). The fact that I'm using 10+ year old technology is a bit alarming as the average lifecycle in my house for any technology is about 3 years.

The solution will be here in the next five years I would bet as the market expands.
 
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