Replacing Motion Sensors with Alarm I/O Enabled Cameras

[KJP1]

I have a wired alarm system (Vista 20 panel), and I was thinking about upgrading my motion sensors.  I wanted to replace them with cameras, some of which have the alarm contacts on the back.
 
I was thinking of disconnecting the power lines from the panel and attaching them to the appropriate sized wall wart in the basement (normally 5v) and therefore power the camera's from the existing wiring.  Has anyone else done this?  Any suggestion on cameras?  I know the Vera vista cams have the alarm I/O.  Any others?
 
Thanks.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

My first reaction would be to say no, as the motion detection on cameras is a lot different from conventional motion detectors, and IMO are more susceptible to false alarms; but, I would like to see exactly what cameras you are talking about.  Do you have a link to them?

 

[KJP1]

Something like this  http://shop.getvera.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VistaCamSD
 
It has the alarm I/O and relay contacts on the back (although I would prefer a similar form factor as the motion sensor).

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

hmmm, seems their manual is in Word format, which I'm not about to download!

 

[drvnbysound]

There is NO WAY that I'm replacing intrusion motion detectors (most likely PIR) with a video based camera.

 

[pete_c]

Older analog Optex outdoor / indoor cams are combination PIR / Cams.  The indoor ones are a bit oversized but look like regular PIRs. 
 
The newer ones that I have seen (now too seeing a bunch of them) are combination PIR / HD IP cams and at that $500-$1000 price point range and they all look like cameras.
 
The analog PIR combo cams are still sold.  That said you can connect a little mini Axis server to the analog port and run your additional PIR switches stuff.  (Optex ones I have have three sets of switches on them, microphone, power and coaxial connection - lots of wires though).
 
Much of the newer tiny cams have built in motion detection using video algorithms which is still much of a science for larger CPU processors; ain't there yet though for that less than $200 camera (well that I have seen).
 
The pictured link looks the same as my test (ed) Foscam PT camera which was laid to rest a few months back.  It worked but if I touched it (PT while changing the ambient light) I could lock it up and only a power down and restart would get it going again.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Something like this  http://shop.getvera.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VistaCamSD
 
It has the alarm I/O and relay contacts on the back (although I would prefer a similar form factor as the motion sensor).

That website is whacked and I'm starting to question the legitimacy of this post.  I wanted to read the manual as I'm wondering if the alarm contacts activate ON motion detection.

 

[pete_c]

I never paid much attention to the Foscam alarm connections but assumed that a video motion zone trigger was connected to the alarm terminals. 
 
Never tested the video motion nor the alarm terminals. 
 
That said my very first test IP HD camera with a pigtail of many wires had the same alarm in and out terminals. 
 
This was way before purchasing the Foscam. 
 
I wrote to the company and asked for a new pigtail with just a network / power connection. They did send me a new pigtail.  I had to remove the old stuff pin by pin and replace it with the new pigtail pin by pin.  It was a real PITA.
 
Attached is a picture showing the "Grandstream OS" stuff from the purchased "test" IP HD camera boards that I have been playing with.  I do not see this stuff on the Grandstream labeled IP HD cams I purchased here and still using today.
 
That and I see SIM card traces / pins on my test boards such that SIP and serial to 3G/4G telephony stuff is standard.
 
There is also an SD card slot set up plus USB port on the tiny motherboard.
 
Note too I have bits and pieces of these boards that I have played with.  IE: the camera lens board uses a little ZIF cable to the IP motherboard.  Even has a CMOS RTC clock and battery on it.  Amazing little tiny motherboard about 3" in diameter.
 

 
I am guessing it would be ok for indoor motion stuff in an empty seldom used room but for outdoor it really doesn't work well.

 

[drvnbysound]

That website is whacked and I'm starting to question the legitimacy of this post.  I wanted to read the manual as I'm wondering if the alarm contacts activate ON motion detection.

 
That's what I've seen in the past from other cameras. I wouldn't rely on it for security purposes; too many false alerts and not reliable enough for real alerts either.

 

[KJP1]

I'm only looking to replace the indoor sensors.  I have the little wall units, and I would like to have cameras.  There is a power lead to the location and I/O wires as well.
 
The site I posted is legitimate - it's actually the site for the Mi Casa Verde home controller company know known as Vera.  I actually purchased their Vera lite controller, but I sent it back.  Too much hassle.
 
Also, with these cameras I would expect that rather than false alarms, perhaps there would be more alarm failures.  That is, the motion detection not being as good as PIR?

 

[pete_c]

Also, with these cameras I would expect that rather than false alarms, perhaps there would be more alarm failures.  That is, the motion detection not being as good as PIR?

 
The video video algorithms on these tiny CPU cameras is not as good as a PIR.  Its your choice to try for yourself.  Buy them both and play.
 
The camera is using video algorithms to detect motion.  You can set areas / grades of detection; but still its relatively only OK.  A PIR sensor is totally different in its mechanisms of detection. 
 
You would get false alarm triggers rather than alarm failures with the video motion detection.  IE: ambient lighting / reflection of light could false trigger the video motion events stuff.
 
Here I mix the two to play and always fall back on the PIRs for detecting motion for stuff like lamps turning on or recorded CCTV events.
 
Here I utilize a software in LInux CCTV DVR called ZoneMinder (http://zoneminder.com) (http://zoneminder.com) (http://zoneminder.com).  Here is the configuration screen for motion detection.  It gets a bit much.  I can assign one subsection of one blob and have it overlay another section for detection of motion and assignments of variables.  You define it by pixels top, bottom,left and right; then the grade of motion or detection.  Note too that this is using Ubuntu 14.04 running at 64bits.  Its been now some 10 years of play with and its still not just right. 
 

 

[drvnbysound]

With a camera you can get false alarms when the camera sees a shadow move across the view (e.g. someone outside causing shadow inside) and you can get missed detections (e.g. night time, low light condition where there may be little to no contrast difference).