SageTV Question

[roussell]

For those with HDHomeRuns: How do you receive Standard-def signals sent by your cable company? With "Extended basic" in my area Charter sends about 65 standard def NTSC channels and about 70 more that are not (they're QAM, or ATSC, I don't know...) on the same wire with no converter box needed. Some channels are the same between the two formats, but the majority are not. It's my understanding that the HDhomerun would only pickup the HD (QAM) channels and not the rest, if that's the case; what the best card/cox for the old NTSC channels that is Sage compatible?

Also, with respect to Sage; when you have a mix of tuner devices and a variety of HD extenders to access those devices, what is the user's presentation of that hodgepodge on the HD extender? Does the user just see a program grid or channel line-up with no clue where the signal is coming from or does the user have to select a specific tuner device from which to view? If the latter, how is the WAF when having to jump between SD/HD tuner devices?

Thans,
Terry

 

[Steve]

FWIW I have a HDHR and love it too, but I use it strictly for OTA and it works great. I can't answer about cable, sorry.

As for the presentation, once it is setup, the user has no clue about sources, tuners, etc. You get a program guide from Zap2It. All the user sees is those guides and doesn't have to worry about the behind the scenes details.

 

[sic0048]

For those with HDHomeRuns: How do you receive Standard-def signals sent by your cable company? With "Extended basic" in my area Charter sends about 65 standard def NTSC channels and about 70 more that are not (they're QAM, or ATSC, I don't know...) on the same wire with no converter box needed. Some channels are the same between the two formats, but the majority are not. It's my understanding that the HDhomerun would only pickup the HD (QAM) channels and not the rest, if that's the case; what the best card/cox for the old NTSC channels that is Sage compatible?

Also, with respect to Sage; when you have a mix of tuner devices and a variety of HD extenders to access those devices, what is the user's presentation of that hodgepodge on the HD extender? Does the user just see a program grid or channel line-up with no clue where the signal is coming from or does the user have to select a specific tuner device from which to view? If the latter, how is the WAF when having to jump between SD/HD tuner devices?

Thans,
Terry

Terry,

You need a NTSC tuner to pick up those analog stations. It is the same tuner that use to pick up analog OTA stations until they went dark last week. I have personally used a Hauppauge PRV-500 to pick up analog cable stations. I like it because it also has a dual tuner in it. So you can use it to record two analog cable stations at one time. It works just fine with Sage. It is a fairly old card now, so it can be hard to find.

Another option is to forego the HDHR and buy two hybrid cards. These are newer cards that have 1 digital and 1 analog tuner it them. So you would need two cards to be able to record either 2 digital or 2 analog shows at one time (of course you could record up to 4 shows at one time as well - but only 2 digital and 2 analog).

As far as the channel line up is concerned, there is only 1 lineup for all available channels through all of your tuners. The end user will never know the difference as they browse and select channels to watch. The only time there is an issue is if someone selects a channel to watch and all the available tuners for that type of signal are being used to record shows. Then you will get a message asking if you want to cancel one of the recordings, or simply not tune to that channel. It makes for a really easy to use interface and people instinctively know how to use it - so the WAF is generally pretty high.

 

[roussell]

Cool, thanks. I should probably try to grab a couple of PVR-500 cards while I can. My main concern was how all of those tuners would appear to "Those who hate HA" (yes, they actually exist). My wife is actually driving this in a way, She doesn't like having multiple TiVos with shows she likes to watch in different rooms/TVs. Of course without a delay I mentioned that there was a way to fix that.

I guess nobody makes a "SDHomeRun"? I like the idea of the tuners (HD and SD) being a separate box because the PC I'd use is a compact desktop with no room for full-height cards... GUess I'll just have to get a new case, darn... B) Are there any recommendations for Sage-worthy hybrid cards?

Steve mentioned that the guide comes from Zap2it - Is there acharge for that, are there add buried in the guide, or does Sage provide that as a service to their customers without nags or charge?

Terry

 

[Steve]

Steve mentioned that the guide comes from Zap2it - Is there acharge for that, are there add buried in the guide, or does Sage provide that as a service to their customers without nags or charge?

Built in and free with no ads. You just tell it the source and/or location and its all integrated.

 

[sic0048]

I guess nobody makes a "SDHomeRun"? I like the idea of the tuners (HD and SD) being a separate box because the PC I'd use is a compact desktop with no room for full-height cards... GUess I'll just have to get a new case, darn... Are there any recommendations for Sage-worthy hybrid cards?

Terry

I know they make (have made) USB NTSC cards, so that might be an option too. As far as hybrid cards go, I think a lot of people like the Hauppauge HVR-2250 card. It allows you to record up to 2 shows at once (2 digital, 2 analog, or 1 of each). I'm not sure if it is available in a low profile card or not.

 

[TXFlatLander]

@roussell:

I personally would stay away from the PVR-500 for two reasons:

First, from what I have read on the SageTV forums, Comcast is converting the majority of the channels over to QAM in some markets (not sure if it is clear QAM or scrambled). Maybe someone who this happened to can chime in. If you get a card like the PVR-500 that has NTSC tuners only with no ATSC/QAM, it will probably be useless for the majority of the channels you watch. I would think the transfer is inevitable for all markets seeing that can reclaim that single analog channel and put several digitals in its place. If you want NTSC, then I would get a card that has NTSC along with ATSC/QAM so you don't have a paperweight after the transfer -- like the HVR-2250. If you ever get away from cable, at least you have the ATSC portion for broadcast recording. I do not own a HVR-2250 yet, so I can't speak on the quality of picture.

Now here is some history on the PVR-500 and why I would stay away from it:

At one time, there was 3 revisions of the PVR-500 referred to as Type A, Type B, & Type C. Type A was the first version and they had Philips on-board tuners that worked beautifully (surprising since I have had nothing but problems with Philips electronics). With Type B, Hauppauge switched to Samsung tuners that really really sucked out of the box (surprising seeing how much I like Samsung panels) unless you ran beta drivers that had LNA enabled -- then it sucked, but bearable. Type C was another revision that was between the picture quality of a Type A and Type B with the modified drivers.

When I purchased my 500, I got a Type A but I found a bad weld on the coax input after three weeks of using it so I sent it back for exchange and got the Type B in return. I was setting up MythTV at the time and wasn't sure if it was my configuration at the time that caused the poor quality. Another two weeks past and found out others were having the same problem with these "new" cards. At that point, I was beyond my return period with buy.com. I ended up going with Windows and BeyondTV (I know, bad decision...now converting to SageTV). My point is if you can get a Type A card, get them, otherwise I would stay away.

If you want a NTSC card only, then I would go with the nVidia DualTV card. It received glowing reviews during its time. However, it along with the PVR-500 have both been discontinued. You can find the DualTVs new on eBay.


@sic0048:

I don't want you to take any offense -- the PVR-500 is a great card if you have the Type A revision, in my opinion. I just didn't want roussell to get a Type C or worst yet a Type B

 

[sic0048]

No offense taken.

To be honest, I didn't realize the HVR2250 had two analog and two digital tuners built in until I read the spec sheet I linked to. I know a lot of the other hybrid cards only have 1 analog and 1 digital tuner. So the HVR-2250 would allow you to "future proof" and allow you to record two shows regardless of the fomat type (analog or digital).

 

[TXFlatLander]

It took Hauppauge forever to come out with it. The PVR-500 fiasco put a bad taste in my mouth. I will probably buy a 2250 in the next few months but I am hoping that nVidia gets in the game with their version of the 2250 or an internal dual ATSC/QAM tuner. Who knows if they will.... *crossing fingers*

 

[felixrosbergen]

The HVR2250 is a low profile card. It comes with normal size brackets attached but low profile brackets are shipped with it in the box.

HD picture quality seems fine....the firs time you have it tune in all the channels takes FOREVER (like 30 minutes) so don't freak out and reset your system.

I bought my PVR500 about half a year ago or so...it must be a C version since it works, but the picture quality isnt great.

 

[TXFlatLander]

If you care, here is a SnapStream forum discussion over the PVR-500 issue.


Type A & Type B pics are on the first post. Here is more examples of Type A & B. Type C is right below that post.

Here are some revision numbers I pulled off that thread real quick:

Type A revision is D492
Type B revision is Model: 23552, Rev: E587 or Rev: E687
Type C revision is E492

May be more than one revision per type that isnt listed.

Edit: Found more pics and revision numbers

 

[TXFlatLander]

HD picture quality seems fine

Would you mind posting some screencaps (or video) of the 2250 picture quality? I haven't seen very many. Thanks