SageTV vs Media Center

[Mike]

The stream part can be done a few different ways, from what I understand:

1. Extender - Buy the box that links off the main box.
2. Placeshifter - Streams shows to a laptop or other computer
3. Have another sage tv machine - I have not looked at items 1 and 2 yet, but from MCE items I was wondering if using two machines for Sage perhaps and then extending from there for secondary locations. For example, living room and bedroom are primary locations and would get their own machine. Other areas would get an extender or streaming.

For the S-video only piece, for example the kitchen with a smaller tv would be fine.

I have been giving the DVD issue some thought and I think getting a changer to supplement a hard drive based speed rack makes sense. Even with reduced rates for larger drives, 400 DVD's for $300 or $500 (depending on model) seems like a pretty good deal. I was looking through my boxes of DVD's and realizing I had some good ones boxed up because they are not accessible. Just a thought, I think a combination may be the right approach.

The other nice part about multiple machines (if needed) is that it is more room to put hard drives without building enclosures. Is there a performance hit on this? I have not tested enough. I'm running everything wired over a gigabit network, so it should really be up to the individual pc's to be able to keep up.

On the live tv part, I don't know about sage, but on an MCE extender, the live tv that is displayed was what is on the main box (or at least appeared to work that way during my testing). I am going to guess it may be similar (although perhaps you can use another tuner if you like?).

 

[IVB]

It says you can watch live tv on a client if I rememebr correctly so if that affected by the number of tuners as well?

Yes, live TV tunes a station, so it will require a tuner.

HOwever, let me tell you this: I've owned SageTV for >1000 days now [there's actually a few dozen folks in that camp]. I stopped watching live TV 2 years ago. All we had to do was not watch TV or focus on movies for 1-2 weeks, and the shows got backed up. Right now there's probably 5 shows recorded I have yet to watch.

My 2nd STB broke 9 months ago, i got a backup in the closet, but i haven't hooked it up to the HTPC yet. Very occasionally i get bummed that the 2nd tuner isn't working and I say "man, i really gotta do that", but then time passes and I forget. It's only an issue every few months.

 

[smee]

The stream part can be done a few different ways, from what I understand:

1. Extender - Buy the box that links off the main box.
2. Placeshifter - Streams shows to a laptop or other computer
3. Have another sage tv machine - I have not looked at items 1 and 2 yet, but from MCE items I was wondering if using two machines for Sage perhaps and then extending from there for secondary locations. For example, living room and bedroom are primary locations and would get their own machine. Other areas would get an extender or streaming.

From what I understand, the extender and placeshifter use the same methods and license to stream video. So, if you buy a placeshifter license, you could also use this with the extender (or a MediaMVP that you already own) - but it will only support one stream per license. Also my understanding, but the placeshifter and extender interface transcodes the video to lower quality mpeg2 before streaming (mpeg2 since that's what the MVP understands natively, lower quality to save bandwidth (but I don't know how low)). If you are running placeshifter over a LAN (not internet), it does not need to transcode.

The other option is to run a SageTV Client. This is sort of like running another SageTV machine, but it doesn't have tuners. It's still connecting to the server on the primary Sage machine, but it gets the video as "data" instead of streaming.

From the Sage forums, it sounds like you can't stream from a client - otherwise this would be a way to distribute the load for streaming.

I run a Sage server with 2 tumer cards (it actually has a third OTA HD card, but I got tired of it recording the wrong program because my local PBS program guide was oftern wrong - Sage would record a program in HD (but get the wrong one) instead of recording it using the normal tuners. I rarely ever access the Sage machine directly because I have a client running on another machine.

 

[IVB]

From the Sage forums, it sounds like you can't stream from a client - otherwise this would be a way to distribute the load for streaming.

Correct, a client is just that - a client that subscribes to the streams.

If you want to distribute the load, check out SageRecorder. That's a seperate license, but allows you to put another tuner in another PC and have the central master server control it.

 

[smee]

From the Sage forums, it sounds like you can't stream from a client - otherwise this would be a way to distribute the load for streaming.

Correct, a client is just that - a client that subscribes to the streams.

I don't think that's quite correct.

I was under the impression that Client did not stream for recorded video. It "gets" the data file and plays it on the local machine (but doesn't need to transfer the file over to start playing). The server is just acting as a file server. For live TV, it's a real time feed but I'm not sure if it is really streaming.

Extender and Placeshifter, on the other hand, receive streamed video from the server. The server will transcode the stream based on network capabilities (and in the case of extender, at least, will always deliver mpeg2 (since that's what the MVP plays natively)). I expect that Extender and Placeshifter can produce a significantly higher burden on the Sage server (CPU time) than client does.

I haven't had a chance to play with Placeshifter or Extender, yet. But I will after I get around to upgrading to Sage 5.

 

[IVB]

Well, depends on the definition of the word streaming, and perhaps I'm using it the wrong way. The client doesn't actually retrieve the whole file before playback, it reads it from the network file server and begins playing as soon as it's cached a few seconds.

I haven't done anything with extender, very little with placeshifter, but that logic seems consistent with what i've been told by their CTO. [he/I were PMing about my 3400, and how to get it to playback SageTV]

 

[Digger]

[/QUOTE][he/I were PMing about my 3400, and how to get it to playback SageTV]

Can you stream to a 3400 with a wireless card? That could be a neat feature.

 

[IVB]

that's exactly what i'm testing right now. I can do it fine if I crank down some settings to an unacceptable level. Basically, allow frame-dropping, something about color blending. Looks a little funky, I couldn't take 30 minutes of it.

I don't know PlaceShifter enough to understand what the other settings are. The CTO gave me a few pointers, now I just need to find the time to read the manual about those areas and experiment. It could be a viable option once I understand the other parameters and balance them all out.

Not a preferable option, but hopefully an acceptable one, so you don't need a touchscreen AND a TV in the kitchen.

 

[Digger]

Exactly!!! use as a TV and a touchscreen in places where space is limited. Since I own 2 of the 3500's it would be great if this worked. I think the processors are to slow though.

 

[Digger]

If I convert a PC to a HTPC and want multiple tuner cards for use with SAGE how do I do that with limited PCI Slots?

Also does it pay to get a regular tuner card with everything going HDTV etc?

Lastly (for now) almost all computers have SATA drives not IDE. I dont think I can mirror a SATA drive so whats the best alternateive for SATA?

 

[Mike]

How limited are you on slots? These days network and audio are on board (with optical out as well in many cases) so there is not a lot required. Two tuner cards and a usb card and you probably still have some left over (depending on what type of machine).

What are you working with?

Since you can only record OTA HD right now, I think regular tuners are the right option. When that changes, swap them for real tuners.

You should be able to mirror a SATA drive, if not an external card can help that. If it is just mirroring, then a $50 card might cut that (have to look later).

 

[Digger]

its a 5 year old Compaq Model 5430 I am trying to salvage. I might be better off starting fresh.

Its a P4 1.8 GHz, 512 M Ram

80 Gig Hard Drive (no wheres near enough)

If I pull the fire wire card I will have 2 slots open.

I think that by trying to go cheap I might actually waste money in the long run.

So how do you like the Sage TV Mike?

 

[smee]

its a 5 year old Compaq Model 5430 I am trying to salvage. I might be better off starting fresh.

Its a P4 1.8 GHz, 512 M Ram

80 Gig Hard Drive (no wheres near enough)

My PVR machine is running SageTV. I use it to record, but not to play back (although it handles it ok).

It's a newer motherboard than yours, but I'm running a P4 1.8 with 512M (and some of that is shared with the motherboard video). It's got a 40G (?) and a 160G drive in it.

I'm running 2 tuner cards (actually, it's got 3 but one isn't configured). No problems recording on both at the same time (may 10-15% of processor, max).

 

[Digger]

I am looking to be able to view up to 4 shows at once (live tv, recorded tv, or DVD's etc). We have 4 people in the house, 7 tv's , 5 computers. Obviously not all will be in use at that same time.

Based on that I will eventually want 4 tuners. I am thinking of the Hauppauge dual tuner cards (two of them) . I am hoping to use Sage TV for this setup.

I was looking at two 500 Gig drives so that I can store about 200 DVD's and temporary store some recorded tv (maybe 40 hours).

This is not an area where I have any experience. I am more of an alarm hardware guy. I have been trying to read up on this. I hope to avoid any mistakes that are to costly.

So am I dreaming or do you think I can make this work.

 

[Mike]

I've been pleased with it. More importantly my wife has not omplained, even though it was an upheaval to replace MCE with Sage.

The only thing I noticed the other day was some bars on the right edge of the screen and some white spots at the top edge on one program. This could have been something with that channel, and I will look at it this weekend (regardless probably not related to sage).

I am planning on trying the MCE-like interface, as I think that will take it to the next step.

In regards to how I liked it: I was on the trial, I bought it. nuff said?

I have not tested the clients or extenders yet, which initial views on MCE extenders make me note caution since you will need that, but the base product seems sound.

In regards to older PC's a few numbers to keep in mind (ball park) based on what I saw when upgrading mine (and things I saw recently):

Socket 478 motherboard, asus: $90 (newegg.com)
3.4 Ghz CPU $132 (saw it at geeks.com)
2GB Corsair RAM (After Rebate) $130 (was newegg, not sure of current pricing)

The rest you probably have. Bottom line, you can replace the old stuff for a few hundred most likely (which if you are extending to multiple rooms I'm guessing HT wil be better than not, as will more memory and CPU).