Starting Over - What would you do?

rayzor

Member
I just sold my house where I have invested ~$3000 in the following
 
1. Nest
2. Insteon Switches/Dimmers/Outlets/Sensors/Garage Door/Ceiling Fan
3. Elk M1 security
4. ISY
5. Insteon Hub (easier for my wife to use)
6. Orchestrated MobiLinc
7. POE cameras w/ Blue Iris
 
Luckily our new house is a little cheaper, and my wife has allowed a $10,000 budget with the only condition to be that it actually works as the above setup has been a little flaky for her.
 
I like the idea of Amazon Echo, but my goals are the following
 
1. All lights (Hue? LIFX?)
2. Outlets for Christmas Tree/Holiday Lights in Eaves
3. Security System
4. Sprinklers
5. Security Cameras
6. Garage Door
7. Ceiling Fans
8. Thermostat (will be 2 of them)
 
Ideally I would want to control this through a single app, but haven't been lucky so far. 1 or 2 apps may not be bad, but just don't want 7 different apps for the above.
 
Are there things I am missing? Things you have done and would redo, or things you would do different? Insteon? Z-Wave? Zigbee?
 
drvnbysound said:
Elk + eKeypad (iOS) can do all of what you are talking about with a single app.
 
Here's another thread where it was discussed recently...
http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/29050-the-final-touch-is-needed/
 
I hate to sound picky, but the WAF of that is completely crap. No icons, inconsistent button sizes, text that doesn't specify the action (F1, F2, F3???). I know I didn't specify above, and this is a great solution, so big props, but I doubt my wife would even use that. I've tried it before and it was so unintuitive on where to find things.
 
Hmm, I've got nothing... my wife uses it all the time. No issues ;)
 
EDIT: My F-keys are labeled...
index.php
 
I'm with drvnbysound on this one... I keep trying SO hard to make something of all these new players that keep cropping up - but at the same time, they're all desperately trying to figure out how to coexist and work together the way my system has since before the iPhone was invented (which precedes any real Android offerings).
 
My wife sees the value in nearly nothing.  She would rather park 3 miles away than use a free valet service.  I had my iPhone for years while she couldn't fathom the idea of spending that much more money than her flip-phone cost.  If I told her that for $200 she wouldn't have to walk around to 17 downstairs locations to turn off the lights before bed, she'd give me some excuse about how she doesn't mind it, and tell me about some other BS irrelevant thing we should spend the money on instead.  She values nearly nothing physical (now, a vacation in Maui with a massage on the beach she'd give up food for 2 months for).
 
She uses eKeypad instead of walking the 6' to the light switch.  She'll even fire it up and wait to hit the button rather than ask me to press the button that sits on my nightstand.  I've seen her walk to the touchscreen computer on the end table rather than around to the thermostat.  Granted - I did all the work, but I named things correctly, and I built out her favorites section for her - but as it is now, I often use that as my primary means of opening/closing the garage, and turning off the lights before bed, as does she.  I use it while lounging out back to turn on the kids' play sprinklers.  We use it for the HVAC far more than the actual tstats.
 
If your system is built so that the Elk can truly do everything, then organizing eKeypad to do it all simply is on the end user.  The tools are there.
 
Like I said - with so many new offerings cropping up every week, I try to figure out how to make it work... it'd sure be nice to tell Alexa to set the temp downstairs lower 1 degree - but I hate noise anyway, so I'm fine firing up the one and only app the controls my house and doing it from there.  Someday I truly do hope that someone at or affiliated with Elk builds some cloud interfaces though.
 
I recently retrofitted my house that was built in the 60's and chose to go with the Elk, UPB lighting and eKeypad. The Elk/UPB combo does everything that I need to do and both technologies have been around for decades and have a huge customer base both commercial and residential. I didn't want to risk spending my time and money on a technology that may end up being short lived and I trust that these two will be around for a while. eKeypad may be replaced some day down the road but is the most comprehensive software that I could find at the time and as far as I can see it still is.
 
I also researched the HAI/Leviton at the time but preferred the ala-carte design and lower up-front cost of the Elk. Being a newbie I felt that it would give me more flexibility to change my design on the fly as I learned more about the system and that worked out pretty well for me.
 
Mike.
 
Here using an HAI Omni Pro 2 (X2) and Automation Software (Homeseer).  The house will function with either or or both. I do make the hardware compliment the software and the software compliment the hardware.  Security is security and the Automation and security do not mix well.  The Leviton HAI Omni-Pro or the Elk M1 combination security and automation panels do a good job of this.  There is really no home automation software that I can see that replaces security today (it does compliment it)
 
As the above here utilize primarily UPB for my in wall light switches.
 
While I tinker with automation the light switch will always be the control for the lighting here.  I do play with new technology as it keeps me busy.  The WAF is there but it isn't prioritized nor needed these days.  I try and do make it fit when necessary or if necessary but it is not obligatory; never has been.
 
As stated above the interconnectivity of new automation devices is not all there.  I tend to not have any dependencies on cloud automation of any sorts.  IE: the Nest is cute but my thermostat does everything I need for it to do and I do not pay attention to it nor need to pay attention to it.
 
Software automation does provide a person with the ability to tinker with everything new while hardware automation doesn't and simply just works but is bound by a hard set of firmware rules.  Security typically is utilized for life safety stuff and while it is fun to tinker with it; you shouldn't tinker with your life ......
 
Meanwhile I do utilize Homeseer automation software to bring the technologies together while concurrently creating a console that will work on any OS.  I have done that since the 1990's.  I did do the doo of automation with whatever was available back in the late 1970's; even remote controlling a home thousands of miles away via telephone.
 
Been playing with smart phones since the 1990's.  Palm OS  / Microsoft OS smart phones were around years before the IPhone.  One global enterprise project in the early 2000's was the tethering of the smart phone to the person wherever in the world that person might be.  Around that time I choose not to be tethered 24/7 to my testing phone.  I have always purchased phones sans contract and early on would cook my phones removing the garbage and making them just tools for my needs.
 
My wife likes the technology but has no dependencies on the automation or cell phone. 
 
She mostly does keep her cell phone off as I do. 
 
Concurrently her sister, my sisters and other relatives here sleep and interact with their iPhones / iPads 24/7 (along with twitter / facebook et al).  My grandson (around 4 now) has his own little Android (rubberized) tablet and watches NetFlix movies on it.  Geez went to a funeral last year where one cousin spoke about her new Echo as if it was a new member of the family and didn't even mention the dead relative. 
 
Wife accepts the automation and accepts my tinkering with it.  She has the choice of using it any way she wants.  It is not mandatory.  While here do try to keep the WAF high; it is more of an acceptance of what is rather than many personal efforts to provide a conduit to it.
 
Personally here it is a hobby that keeps me busy.  As a hobby over the years there has been no real budget as it was installed over time with a little spend here or there.  IE: recently I worked on one automobile which I wasn't really driving, it was all apart in the garage and little bit by little bit would do stuff with it; there was really no time frame and I just enjoyed the learning experience (even though I go a bit slower these days with it - it is the same with my automation today adding this or that new technology device while concurrently not ever putting dependencies on it (or budget these days)).
 
Lately been playing with a Wiki called Home Automation.  It has turned in to a little endeavour; going really slow with it.  Note that the primary sections do mention methodologies of control here but no real dependencies and some interplay between the various technologies but really it is not soup today yet and evolving.  There is so much happening that it is hard to freeze it such that it will be a live document always.  There is an automation race of sorts between big players today like Amazon, Apple, Google or Microsoft. (linux is there too)  There will probably be not much interplay between these players other than the basics of what and how things are being automated.   There is NO singular Amazon, Apple, Google, Microsoft or Linux automation protocol today that I know of.
 
I've been working on this part (attached) for a couple of weeks now and still it is not even close  to completion (so it will be live).  I am trying to make it global rather than just US centric. 
 
automationprotocols.jpg
 
Well, if your wife likes something like Haiku / Space better, then you could do OmniPro or Lumina instead of Elk.  Unfortunately I don't think you can buy Haiku anymore, as someone mentioned it was off the app store.  Leviton offers SnapLink and there are other options, but they aren't full featured presently.
 
I'd suggest getting off the Insteon and into something a little more robust. That in itself would solve the "flakiness" Then you go between something like the M1 and a 3rd party HA controller. Let Elk do critical tasks and then loadshed the more HA tasks to the dedicated controller.
 
Honestly, cameras are best left on their own app and go with slightly higher build quality than BI (really, what you spend on that and the hardware, you could get a really nice embedded piece of hardware).
 
From that point on, the remainder could really be done via a single app with enough effort on your part.
 
Given the budget, I'd say HAI is realistically going to be out of the budget given the cost of the panel/infrastructure you'd need to consider in the beginning vs something like the M1. Both are good, but you need to buy up front for HAI.
 
I'll revise what I stated based on Del's comment above....
 
I still use my BI app for viewing alerts and archived video from my CCTV system, and I usually do access my cameras that way. However, I do get live streaming video into eKeypad - making it possible to control Elk, adjust thermostats, control garage door, adjust lighting, view camera feeds, etc. all from within eKeypad.
 
DELInstallations said:
Honestly, cameras are best left on their own app and go with slightly higher build quality than BI (really, what you spend on that and the hardware, you could get a really nice embedded piece of hardware).
DEL
 
Can you recommend an imbedded for the home? By imbedded I am thinking that you mean an NVR?
 
Mike.
 
I'm really surprised to hear that people suggesting the M1 as the controller. To be honest, I have never explored that - how do I tie that into a light switch or outlet to control it? I assume this is what you are talking about vs Insteon, and then I use something else for home automation? I also assume you are talking about the J16 programmable outputs? I only see a handful of those, but I am hoping to end up with ~55 devices that are controlled in the end. How does the M1 support that?
 
What 3rd party HA do you recommend? I do like eKeypad for me, but just wish I could customize it more for the wife. I hate that it seems that I have to sacrifice functionality for design in the HA world.
 
Can any of this tie into Hue/LIFX/etc... ? I really like the idea of colored lights :0
 
The Elk and HAI panel are combination security automation panels made to last. 
 
Utilizing ELK / HAI addendum software you can do much these days with both panels.
 
Hue / LIFX is using wireless technology and is new.  You can by pass the typical in wall light switch or even just put masking tape on it to keep the power on your lamps.
 
I would read up a bit on automation some more and really eliminate all of the rhetoric out there.  There is a bunch.
 
Well too read here as there are many folks automating their lightning today in a variety of ways new and old. 
 
Ask questions about the lighting automation technologies and you will get answers with an almost religious fervor.
 
I have seen a couple of folks doing a genuflect in front of a Nest display at a local big box hardware store such that there seems to be a genuine adoption of automation trinkets these days.
 
Here I migrated my lighting from X10 (1970's) to Insteon (early 2000's) to UPB (later 2000's).  In place to tinker here still have X10 (works fine for me today), Insteon (off mode), Z-Wave (works) and Zigbee works). 
 
Playing with wireless (using radio) multicolored LED but for fun at this time more than function.  I have switched all of my low voltage lightning outside today to LED.  It's been working fine and very functional.
 
Inside LED lighting is still experimenting. 
 
As stated earlier; today it is easier to utilize software to automate with new stuff.  IE: I mentioned Homeseer earlier.  CQC is mentioned a bunch here and I would look at that too.
 
If you want to go free relating to software there is also openHAB and HomeGenie out there.
 
Insteon is a hybrid PLC and wireless transport.  Microsoft is supporting it.  It is currently second generation as the first efforts flopped.
 
mikefamig said:
DEL
 
Can you recommend an imbedded for the home? By imbedded I am thinking that you mean an NVR?
 
Mike.
Embedded would be a purpose built NVR that is not dependent on the user supplying their own machine. The biggest item I see with BI is what is "qualified and tested" hardware that it supports rather than RTSP. It really doesn't support that much when you dig into it deeper. I can see where people would want to buy a $30 piece of software, take an old PC and run it and become an NVR.
 
By the time you build a machine good enough to support the cameras with a little headroom, you realistically could've bought an embedded NVR that you'd never really have to touch besides an occasional FW update or remote software update.
 
Right now, there's a lot of devices coming out on the "pro" side that take away from the need to have a separate POE switch and even configure cameras, but give the options to use the backbone if needed. The biggest item that's going to be a dealbreaker for many is the distance and the need to plan your extensions well if you're going past the 90M distance.
 
Back
Top