Testing Insteon

[tonti]

Hi,
I have a quick question. I am starting to dabble in Insteon now. Because I want to controll three buildings at the end I figured I just buy a serial PLM and one toggle switch for testing purposes. I found an old laptop with Windows and installed the PLM controller software.
For testing I placed the switch in the study where the PLM is located as well. On the laptop I started the detection mode and then I press the switch button for recognition. I then see the switch on the laptop but I do not see any connection nor can I switch it on/off. Both are on the same circutry on the same breaker.

At this point I am starting to suspect the old windows software. There are some buttons that are greyed out and a lot of the functionality seemed to be not there.

Before I spend more money I want to make sure that my house and barn can be controlled. Is there any way you would test this? Any idea why this does not work in my setup? What should i do differently to get these two connected?

 

[42etus]

Can you be more specific:
 
What version of Windows is on the old laptop?
 
What exactly is "the PLM controller software"?

 

[BLH]

The Insteon developers group quietly disapeared and they released the Developers Notes for public use.
Not sure if anything there may assist you. Like the PLM Developers Notes. Yes it is for the older 2412S PLM but the basic commands are the same.
The I2CS Insteon I2 with Check Sum messaging information is also a good read.
 
http://www.insteon.com/developer#devdocs

 

[tonti]

Sorry, I should have been more specific.
 
I purchased the PLM 2413S and the ToggleLinc 2466SW, I am running on an old Laptop with Win XP SP3 and the Insteon software IonW-PLM V3.4.1 (4-7-2013). The home and the barn are new build and all to the latest code. I should have no issues on the electrical side. 
 
Just moments ago I when I started the software again I tried switching the light "on" again and I can turn the light on from the software. But no switching "off" from the Laptop.  When I manually switch off I can turn it on again from the Laptop. 
 
This would mean that the modem and the switch are linked but I see no linkage in the software except for the device listing on the left. 
 
My main goal is to purchase the ISY99i but I wanted to proof connectivity across the buildings first before I go to this expense. The ISY would make this exercise hopefully less painful then dealing with the PLM directly over a serial. 

 

[BLH]

The 2466SW is a power line only module.
So you have to solid communications betwee it and the PLM.
 
What type load is on the ToggleLinc? It almost sounds like it is making noise. So when Off you can turn it On but the noise prevents it from going Off.
 
You have no phase couplers or Range Extenders, to bridge the split phase power found in almost all homes?
 
The ISY99i has been discontinued and the ISY994i is the present model. Due to firmware limitations in the ISY99i it can't be updated with the latest firmware and will not support the latest modules.

 

[tonti]

I was under the impression that phase couplers were needed in older homes with uncertain electrical hook ups. I figured this is no issue in a new home. I also use a circuit that is on one breaker so the signal should not have to go through the breaker box. I assume you recommend to definitively go with a phase coupler in newer homes - yes?
 
The ToggleLink has only one kitchen lamp on it, this may be an issue if it can't handle a 12V transformator as the kitchen lamp is one of this halogen 12V systems. I can test on a regular lamp if needed.
 
I meant the ISY994i not the ISY99.

 

[tonti]

I just hooked it up to a normal lamp and now I can switch on and off. So your comment about noise from the load is very valid. I just noticed now that it takes longer to get a reaction from the switch. I am still on the same breaker circuit. Is there anything that I should test other than moving this switch around and see if I can reach the barn?

 

[BLH]

One thing I did forget.
If the PLM is connected to the same branch circuit as the computing equipement. That can sometimes cause power line issues. Computing equipement and UPS units are known to cause issues.
 
You may want to try as a test. An extension cord on the PLM. So it is not on the same circuit as the computing equipement.
 
I have my PLM on the unfiltered pass through outlet on a FilterLinc and my UPS on the filtered outlet on the bottom.
 
Taking longer. May indicate the commands had to be sent more than one time to get through.
 
With most of the Insteon Modules now being Dual Band {RF and Power Line}. I have seen posts saying a passive coupler isn't as important.

 

[tonti]

I did one more test - I moved around in the house with the laptop (on battery power) and plugged the PLM into various outlets in the house. I could not get a single command through to the Toggle Switch. Only when I got back to the same circuit (same breaker) I was able to switch again. 
 
I understand that when I am going to RF switches it will improve the situation but I would rather understand the current limitations first. I am miles away from achieving my main goal, switching lights in the barn and outdoors which may not be reached by RF....
 
Any suggestions?

 

[BLH]

My only other though at this time.
Is there any other electronic devices on tha same circuit that could be effecting the power line signal.

 

[LarrylLix]

I have to agree with Brian above
 
I have  a shop/barn building on the other side of my bricked double garage, with about 20' between the shop and far garage wall. The outbuilding is fully coated with a metal roof and aluminum foil insulation, with metal tape to seal joints, making it fully shielded to rf. Metal doors and metal garage door on it,  A radio receiver inside there only works when very close to the window for one local station.
 
My Insteon devices in the shop/barn work fine from my house ISY994i/PLM plugged in beside the main panel that feeds the 100A panel in the shop/barn. The X10 module plugged in out there gets no signal to or from it to the same PLM but Insteon works without fail.
 
With the long distances reported successful from others via Insteon signals it would appear you have some noise  in the Insteon frequency range blocking successful command or ack signals used.

 

[42etus]

With Insteon mesh technology, the network gets stronger and more reliable with more devices. In a situation where a single device seems to be unreliable, that same device can become rock solid when more devices are added to the mix.
 
I have about 75 various devices in my home and another 10 or so in my shop. The PLM is on a dedicated circuit off the house panel. The shop has it's own 200 amp panel. Both the shop and the house are fed from the same pole mounted transformer. Even though signals from the PLM need to travel from the house to the utility transformer and then to the shop, communication has been rock solid. It just works.

 

[tonti]

Is there a way to measure "noise"? Or is this more trail an error?

 

[LarrylLix]

Start with suspected devices and turn them off using a best shot selection method and test each time.
 
If you don't find it, turn everything off at the distribution centre, test, and begin to add devices back in, testing each time.
 
Some surge handlers and filters can filter or suck up Insteon signals. Switching PS can generate noise if they are of poor  design or failing.
 
 
Insteon signals may not jump across to the other phase or leg of your 120/240vac service without a passive phase bridge, active bridge coupler, or a second dual mesh Insteon device plugged in acting like a repeater on the other phase.

 

[BLH]

Some devices with power supplies running all the time and have a soft power on button. Off may not be enough. Unplugged is best.
I have an LCD TV that kills power line signals. On or Off. It has a nice chep to use an AC Rated capacitor across the AC input to keep its electronic noise off the AC circuit. It also makes a wounderful signal killer. To both Insteon and X10.