Turn a traveler wire into a neutral?

[hagak]

So I a light fixture I would like to put an insteon switch on, however like every fixture in this house none of the switches has a neutral wire. This fixture is actually a bank of recessed lights and the insteon solution for handling no neutrals only support up to 300W which is about 200W short of what I need. I was thinking that since the switch is a 3-way is it ok to rewire the traveler wire to be a neutral? Is there and accepted standard to mark the red traveler wire with white tape to indicate it is NOT a traveler.

 

[shea]

So I a light fixture I would like to put an insteon switch on, however like every fixture in this house none of the switches has a neutral wire. This fixture is actually a bank of recessed lights and the insteon solution for handling no neutrals only support up to 300W which is about 200W short of what I need. I was thinking that since the switch is a 3-way is it ok to rewire the traveler wire to be a neutral? Is there and accepted standard to mark the red traveler wire with white tape to indicate it is NOT a traveler.

Yes, it is OK as long as the wires are properly labeled. However, since you will be using the traveler as a "Neutral", what will be your traveler?
I assume that you you also have a Hot by the 3 - way. Therefore, a solution would be to put a separate master at the 3 -way and use that as a transmitter.

 

[BLH]

With Insteon you probably know.
Both switches have to be Insteon or Icon and cross linked to each other.
One has the load capped and the other has the load on it.
So both positions have to have Line and Neutral.

I believe I have seen others using a traveler for getting either a missing Line or Neutral to one of the boxes.

 

[hagak]

With Insteon you probably know.
Both switches have to be Insteon or Icon and cross linked to each other.
One has the load capped and the other has the load on it.
So both positions have to have Line and Neutral.

Right I would wire both of the travelers to be neutral so that both switches have a neutral and hot. I assumed with insteon only one of them has the load and the other is just linked and does not connect to the load.

Note I have not seen the wiring at the LIGHT yet but from looking at the wiring at the 2 switches I believe my 3-way is wired like the second example at this link http://www.do-it-yourself-help.com/installing_3-wayswitches.html

I have not inspected the light wiring yet because I have not been looking forward to finding which of the many can lights has the main junction. Any tips on narrowing down which one it would be, other than check the ones physically closest to the switches? I have to remove the entire can from the ceiling to find it and these are the cans with the 4 tabs holding them in.

 

[drozwood90]

I've done this in my last house. I used the 3-way wires to pull the neutral around.

I have to think about exactly HOW I did it, but the traveler turned into the neutral...so I hooked two UPB switches in, instead of the 3-ways. Then the "first" switch actually performed the power break for the bulb. The other switch (which got it's neutral from the traveler...properly labeled of course) was just linked to the first through a UPB virtual Link. UPB also has "n-way" remote switches...I didn't like them, so I wired it like this and put real switches on both sides.

Just remember to NOT cross circuit neutrals!! I had a box (NEC compliant or not) that had two different circuits from different breakers...so I had to wire both neutrals in. Luckily most of my switch gang boxes, had banks of lights, so getting ONE neutral down into the box was enough, then I just tied all the switches from that box into that one neutral (as all the lights were all on the same breaker anyhow).

--Dan

 

[hagak]

I've done this in my last house. I used the 3-way wires to pull the neutral around.

I have to think about exactly HOW I did it, but the traveler turned into the neutral...so I hooked two UPB switches in, instead of the 3-ways. Then the "first" switch actually performed the power break for the bulb. The other switch (which got it's neutral from the traveler...properly labeled of course) was just linked to the first through a UPB virtual Link. UPB also has "n-way" remote switches...I didn't like them, so I wired it like this and put real switches on both sides.

Just remember to NOT cross circuit neutrals!! I had a box (NEC compliant or not) that had two different circuits from different breakers...so I had to wire both neutrals in. Luckily most of my switch gang boxes, had banks of lights, so getting ONE neutral down into the box was enough, then I just tied all the switches from that box into that one neutral (as all the lights were all on the same breaker anyhow).

--Dan

Cool - so properly labeled, is wrapping the correct color electrical tape around the wire at both ends sufficient? ie white tape - neutral, black tape - hot?

I did notice that in the switch box that one of the switches to the 3-way is in is shared by a switch to another light. I noticed when testing to make sure I had cut power to the circuit that the 2 switches were on different circuits. So in this case I would need to run 2 neutrals to the box since they are on different circuits. What is the code on running 2 circuits into the same box? Note the box was metal and grounded.

 

[apostolakisl]

Cool - so properly labeled, is wrapping the correct color electrical tape around the wire at both ends sufficient? ie white tape - neutral, black tape - hot?

I did notice that in the switch box that one of the switches to the 3-way is in is shared by a switch to another light. I noticed when testing to make sure I had cut power to the circuit that the 2 switches were on different circuits. So in this case I would need to run 2 neutrals to the box since they are on different circuits. What is the code on running 2 circuits into the same box? Note the box was metal and grounded.

Yes, white is universal color for neutral. Black or Red indicate hot. Black is the usual color and red is used as a different hot like a traveler or as the other hot in a 240 circuit.

And you will not need a traveler with Insteon. The switches are linked to produce a virtual 3-way via the power line communications. There are no direct wires between the two (or more) switches.

 

[drozwood90]

Lou Covered what I was going to say (thanks!).

As for the code, you will have to look it up in the NEC, or call your local authority. Different places have their OWN spin on it.

Where I used to live, you could do pretty much whatever you wanted.

Where I live now, they force you to have different boxes for each circuit (no cross contamination), unless they are a shared 220, and then you need to have a special breaker...where they are both 120V breakers, but tied together, so it acts more like a 220V breaker, both lines get turned off (if you work on the line, the neutral can be hot from the other leg).

Best advice on the code, again, call your local authority (town inspector, certified electrician, etc.). Heck, what you could do, is call an electrician to do one circuit. Then ask all the questions, and he gets paid to do some work, you can see exactly what needs to happen as well.

--Dan