Under cabinet dimmable LED lighting....

[MrGibbage]

Searched through these forums and online. Lot's of solutions that come close, but I haven't found the real deal yet. I know there have been many advances in LED lighting lately, so maybe there is some company out there on top of this.

I am looking for an LED under cabinet lighting option.
Puck or strip is acceptable.
It must be 110 controlled and dimmable using Insteon dimmers.
I am installing in a finished kitchen.
I'll need seven lights in all and I would like to keep the total cost less than $200-250

I really prefer the LED because it is so cool (temperature-wise). I have tried both Xenon and Halogen, and they are both too hot for my taste.

So, am I still ahead of my time, or does such a beast exist?

Skip

 

[pete_c]

I purchased hockey puck LED lighting for underneath some kitchen cabinets which I installed in the garage as a "test". I have four mounted and connected to a 120VAC switch. I purchased these at Menards about a year ago. Colors are a bit different between each light but suffice. I believe these were around $50 or so for a set of three. (not remembering how much I paid for 4th one). I have not tried to dim these with Insteon switches; but believe they are dimmable. I might have one sitting around and will test it with an Insteon lighting module.

 

[Neurorad]

Call Insteon, ask for specific recs.

 

[Desert_AIP]

I was in the same boat about a year ago.
I installed two undercabinet LED systems using components from this vendor.
http://www.environmentallights.com/categor...llights-premium
http://www.environmentallights.com/categor...drivers-dimming
http://www.environmentallights.com/categor...erconnect-items
http://www.environmentallights.com/shop/im...ed_undercab.pdf

The transformer is hardwired and dimmable and the 24V LV wiring goes to the LED bars.
You can daisy chain the LED bars.
The interconnect cables are very easy to use, it's a very modular system.
The LED bars are really tiny, only 1/2-3/4" thick. They fit under the cabinets without a separate piece of light rail molding.
I'm using the "warm" color bars. Each system has 4 of the 6" bars.
I have both my systems controlled by SA UPB dimmers.
I've had no problems yet. They've both been installed for 8 months.
No humming of the transformers, no flickering.

I do notice that dimming range with these switches is 0 to about 45%.
I can't detect a difference in output above 45%.
And the 45% output is the same as when I remove the dimmer completely and just hardwire the transformer to the power.
So I use the lower range and get a broad range of dimming.

There is a warning in the docs against using electronic dimmers.
The SA dimmers are magnetic transformer compatable, and they appear to work fine.
If the Insteon are magnetic transformer compatible, they may work.

I did some bench testing before I installed them running with the recommended manual magnetic dimmer, and then using the SA UPB dimmer.
I didn't detect any difference in performance. No voltage spikes, no humming or audio differences.

 

[MrGibbage]

I'm using the "warm" color bars. Each system has 4 of the 6" bars.
I have both my systems controlled by SA UPB dimmers.
...
The SA dimmers are magnetic transformer compatable, and they appear to work fine.

Which ones are the "warm" ones. That first link had white and soft white.

And what is the "SA" that you mentioned.

Otherwise, this looks like it would be a good solution. I'll have to try and think of some creative way to connect all the lights together so I won't have to buy three transformer. The way my kitchen is laid out I will need three of them.

By the way, is there a clever way to conceal the transformers? I am sure I can't leave them in the wall.

Skip

 

[MrGibbage]

http://www.insteon.net/2476d-switchlinc-dimmer-white.html

It looks like the Insteon switches are magnetic capable.

Exactly what do they mean when they say "magnetic" anyway?

 

[Desert_AIP]

I'm using the "warm" color bars. Each system has 4 of the 6" bars.
I have both my systems controlled by SA UPB dimmers.
...
The SA dimmers are magnetic transformer compatable, and they appear to work fine.

Which ones are the "warm" ones. That first link had white and soft white.

And what is the "SA" that you mentioned.

Otherwise, this looks like it would be a good solution. I'll have to try and think of some creative way to connect all the lights together so I won't have to buy three transformer. The way my kitchen is laid out I will need three of them.

By the way, is there a clever way to conceal the transformers? I am sure I can't leave them in the wall.

Skip

By "warm" I meant the "soft white" bars.
More like incandescents.
The others are "cold", or brighter.
More like the difference between warm and cold flourescents.

SA - Simply Automated

The transformers come with two power leads, I added a third to my kitchen lights.
So I have three strings of light bars running off of a single transformer (using the 48W transformer - more than enough).
I did this for ease in running the wiring.
Also I was concerned about voltage drop at the end of the line, so I tried to balance the loads on each branch so one set wouldn't be dimmer than another.

I have the transformer wall mounted in the back of a base cabinet and connected to power from the outlet circuit.
The transformer is about 5" square and 12" long.
Then I ran the low voltage wiring up to the lights, into the wall up and through the wall and out the bottom of small holes in the lip of the the upper cabinets.
I used some flat conduit to contain the LV power lines and make things pretty.
The bars come with low profile metal clips that just screw into the bottom of the cabinets.

I ran one the lines along the inside corners along the base cabinets (took out the drawers).
Behind the drawers and behind the dish washer, etc.
I choose a central location for the transformer and split off from there.

 

[Desert_AIP]

http://www.insteon.net/2476d-switchlinc-dimmer-white.html

It looks like the Insteon switches are magnetic capable.

Exactly what do they mean when they say "magnetic" anyway?

The transformer uses an iron core wire wound transformer to change the voltage levels.
The electricity passing through the wire windings induces a magnetic field in the core which in turn induces an electric current in the second set of windings.
This is in contrast to an electronic transformer that clips the voltage.
Think of it as analog vs. digital.

Most wall warts, for example, use magnetic transformers.
They are simple and inexpensive.

 

[programmergeek]

Our comp-any has actually done several rooms and kitchens with all LED. I use LED tape light, Google it, cheapest smallest way. The vender on Amazon sells it and it is quite good, you can also get it on eBay direct from china but I have gotten some bad ones using that source. The key is all of it will dim you can buy a manual dimmer to put on after the 12v. But if you want to automate it you need the old fashion magnetic transformer. There is also RGB which we are playing with and a controller that you can pick any color or dial your color temp, we are playing with that now. Elimates the whole problem of matching accent light color to your regular bulbs, important in white kitchens. Pulse you can get a nice warm yellow light at night. Trouble is controlling this through a home automation system. If anyone has any suggestions.

Most transformers now a days are not the magnetic type they all have voltage reg in them which means they put out 12v and that is it. Also most are switching 110v - 220v. This advancement is good you know you get 12v and you won't blow anything up if your input power is above 110v. The magnetic ones may put out 12v 15v 6 v depending on the power input. Not really good unless you need that for example LED lights. I have had trouble finding these transformers in 12v for cheap. I refuse to pay $50+ for something that should be about $3. If you know a cheap source please post it.

As for long runs you can do 50' off of 12v longer than that you need to power it every 50' on the tape light the tape can't handle the current that is the issue however you can take a 100' run and power in the middle, 50' each way and you are fine.

One last consideration there is water proof and non waterproof. Get the waterproof preferable the stuff molded in the gel. This elimates the whole issue of people touching it and causing it to burn out. Also it can be wiped down.

If anyone finds a way to intragrate this in to a HAI dimmer or a way to control RGB through a HAI or ELK system please let me know.

 

[pete_c]

I'm using 120VAC "puck" style LED lights under one counter. I'm not sure if they are dimmable but after reading some I don't believe they are although the new "square" type LED 120VAC lighting that I've seen posted is mostly dimmable. I'm color blind but and my neighbor said the coloring of the lights is a bit green versus white. These were easy to wire as I installed a small single gang box very close to the bottom of the cabinet (not noticible unless you look underneath the cabinet) and expanded the single switch gang box to a double gang box putting a switch in for just the under the cabinet lights.

Historically have tried the 12VDC lighting halogen then Xenon. I've switched over all of the "over" the cabinet (2 cabinets - 8 lights and 1 cabinet - 1 light) lighting to 120VAC Xenon lights and probably will switch these too to 120VAC LEDs. The over the cabinet lights utilize 1/2 of a double gang electric box with a second switch put into a converted single to double gang wall switch (dimming today with an Insteon / X10 switch).