Under cabinet LED lighting

[JimS]

I am looking at replacing existing florescent lighting. How do people handle going between
cabinets? Say you have two cabinets next to each other. Seems like choices are to drill
a hole through the cabinet sides and split the strip into two pieces - one under each.
The strips are easy to cut and solder.
Or cut a notch in the sides (it is pretty well hidden under the cabinet) and run a
continuous strip. If using channel and diffuser strip it seems like cutting a notch would
be best. And the lack of breaks in the light would look a bit better.
Anyone got some detail pictures of this?

I figure I can mount a thin outlet in the back where the 115V wires are now with an outlet and
and a small power supply. I could route to the top of the cabinet but I think I can keep
things thin enough underneath. With leds I don't need the power feed for every cabinet - not
sure if I will clip the wires I don't need or put a small box on each so they are there for
future use.

I looked at LED strips and fixtures at HD and Lowes last night. I can get stuff much cheaper
on line but wonder about how long they will last (same concern for the big box stuff too though).
I plan to reduce the voltage a little to help that.

 

[pete_c]

I used 120VAC puck LED lighting in my garage kitchen cabinets.   I redid the garage stuff a few years back redoing much of the electrical infrastructure.(more outlets and more lighting and more automation).
 
It is test mode lighting and its been on 24/7 now for about 3 years.  I did add new conduit and in wall metal boxes.  It was more work than the installation of the LED lamps. 
 
Thinking I drilled between the cabinets.  I prefer though taking it to the wall in an out per cabinet but its a PITA. 
 
Strip lighting looks better to me than the puck lighting; but that is me saying I want to try something else.  Here is a picture of what I did.
 
Note the preferred way I have seen here on CT is to go LV 12VDC with a magnetic transformer so you can dim the LED strip lighting.  You can hide the strips putting them in the front lower lip of the cabinet.
 
Another CT user put his stuff on the top of the cabinet and ran the LV wires behind the cabinet to the bottom.  There on top you will not see any LV magnetic transformers or even wall plates.
 
I went to using DIN mounted 12VDC LED transformers in another section of the house.
 
Note here the wires are in the front of the bottom lip of the cabinet such that I do not really see them unless I look for them.  The LED lighting kit came with modular connectors for inter LED lights.
 
I think I could have installed a straight run of the PVC you see pictured between the cabinets.  There are two pucks per cabinet and they are centered in the middle.

 

[Desert_AIP]

I used 24VDC Bar lights with interconnect cables.
My cabinets had approximately 3/4" of space from the bottom to the bottom of the face frame.
For interconnects, I drilled a 3/8" hole between the cabinets in this recess to pass the cable similar to pete_c.
The supply came in through the back of the first cabinet with the transformer in the back of one of the base cabinets
I used the flat plastic conduit to conceal the wiring.

 

[nicholass817]

Check your cabinet construction too...I've designed several renovations (homes, restaurant bars, hospital nurse stations, etc.) where we had to scrap the kitchen uppers because in a previous renovation the side panels were hacked up to fit larger fluorescent strips under a couple banks of cabinets.  This is usually the cheapest material in the cabinet, a super absorbent particleboard or MDF.  Once you remove the finish (usually plastic laminate even on high end cabinets) and expose the material to kitchen heat and humidity over a decade or so it can ruin the cabinet....especially around your stove, fridge and sink.  
 
Because the channel and diffusers type are less than 3/4" deep, I spec those installed on blocking so the channel can span across the break in cabinet units.  That way you get continuous light aren't messing with the 'structural integrity'.  
 
.02 FWIW

 

[pete_c]

usually the cheapest material in the cabinet, a super absorbent particleboard or MDF

 
You can see the particle board in the picture above.   The only nice wood is the front doors of the cabinets and front wood trim.  Sides, top and bottom were all exposed particle board (garage kitchen cabinets - kitchen a bit different).
 
The issue of an upgrade of LED lighting strips came up on another LED forum posts relating to the use of adhesive and screws to hold the LED strips.  Old kitchen cabinets near a stove will always have cooking weathered bottom sections.
 
You can too today DIY your LED lighting with some reasonably priced and good LED strip lighting with good color and brightness.

 

[JimS]

Because the channel and diffusers type are less than 3/4" deep, I spec those installed on blocking so the channel can span across the break in cabinet units.  That way you get continuous light aren't messing with the 'structural integrity'.

I was thinking of putting the lights under the front and have seen recommendations to do that for better lighting coverage so the blocking would make the lights exposed. If they were in the back then blocking would be fine. Like most things, there are conflicting issues so some compromise will need to be made.

Pete, I was planning to DIY with strip LEDs as you mention. Still trying to sort out if I should just tack them up with or without channels and diffusers.
It should be possible to find dimmers that would be high frequency switching type that would fit in the bottom space with the lights - but I don't need the ability to automate adjustment. Just a fixed level adjusted infrequently.
With channels and careful positioning I might be able to minimize the gap in the lighting so it is less noticeable and use small holes for wires between cabinets. I may just buy the strip and temporarily tack it up to see how it looks. I can then see if I want to try the channel.

Any pointers on how to tell the better LED strips? Best size chips? Any recommendations for channel/bezel sources. I planned to get it from ebay but if someone has had good luck with a supplier that would be good to know.
I want a somewhat warm white - about 3000k I think - some midpoint between very yellow and pure white. Have noticed some called "warm white" are more yellow than I like.

 

[nicholass817]

KLUS makes a great product...they even have a low profile channel thats only .20" deep before you add a lense.  The glass shelves with the bottles on them in this picture have a strip of the 'cool white' in a KLUS channel under each of the 3 tiers.  I think we went with the highest watt per length knowing that they were dimmable.  On the front bar we put the channel on a 45 degree angle in corner where the bar top and the wall met.  It throws a decent amount of light.  
 
Experiment a little before committing to placement.  
 
The GC ordered this through a supply house with a lot of other fixtures...I think 1000bulbs.com has all the same stuff though.  

 

[pete_c]

Folks like the channels / defusers cuz you can change them easier that way if you want.  I do not dim my 120VAC warm white lamps here.  The defusers remove a bit of the glare from the LED lamps.
 
I did another similar 24/7 testing of thin long CCFL lamps / ballasts on some shelves in the basement.  The light looks too synthetic/fluorescentt for me.
 
The CCFL lamps do not dim though.
 
As Nic states you can play with this stuff as it's reasonably priced these days.
 
Here personally purchased a bunch of LED lamps at All Electronics dot com.  They are just an all purpose supply place and their prices are reasonable.
 
I had read good things about this mfg.  That said I have only tested them for function to date and have never installed them.  They also have strip lighting et al.   The below have the screw holes plus 3M tape on them.  The LED lamps are sealed in clear epoxy and it appears that you can use these outside maybe?  These are not really strip lamps though and sold in 3 LED lamp sections.....LG Innotek

 

[Neurorad]

My kitchen installer rec'c under cabinet Sempria LEDs from Task Lighting. I'm switching it on/off with RA2, didn't want to deal with the hassle of the Lutron dimming module required. I think there are 3 groups of LEDs run back, in-wall, to the in-cabinet power supply.

Each in-cabinet LED puck light (WAC LED87) is run in-wall to the same cabinet location for their transformer, wired in parallel, dimmed with RA2.

Each is wired to its own circuit, switched or dimmed.

 

[fcwilt]

I've purchased a number of items from this company and always had good results.
 
https://www.superbrightleds.com/
 
I recently purchased the following for use in a kitchen re-model:
 
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/bar-strip-accessories/klus-b1888_k7--micro-alu-series-surface-mount-black-anodized-aluminum-led-profile-housing/2039/4734/
 
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/led-strips-and-bars/led-light-strips-led-tape-light-with-18-smdsft-3-chip-smd-led-5050-with-lc2-connector/1465/4366/
 
plus a power supply and dimmer.
 
 
For some additional lighting in a timber framed great room I used this product on top of the uppermost beams. Appx 60' produced an amazing amount of much needed illumination.
 
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/led-accent-lighting/brightest-led-light-strips-quad-row-led-tape-light-with-137-smdsft-1-chip-smd-led-3528/1046/2659/

 

[JimS]

I recently purchased the following for use in a kitchen re-model:
 
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/bar-strip-accessories/klus-b1888_k7--micro-alu-series-surface-mount-black-anodized-aluminum-led-profile-housing/2039/4734/
 
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/led-strips-and-bars/led-light-strips-led-tape-light-with-18-smdsft-3-chip-smd-led-5050-with-lc2-connector/1465/4366/
 
plus a power supply and dimmer.

Interesting and the site has some information on mounting and such. The channel is about the same price I saw for similar items on ebay (but ebay often didn't have much detail on dimensions and other things). But the LED strip is about 10x! Is the ebay stuff really that much worse? Are there some middle ground products? I could put up the cheap stuff and in a year or two when it dims the cost of the good stuff will have dropped... Here's a link to an ebay listing, and yes, I realize it may be true junk. That's what I am trying to determine.:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warm-White-5M-SMD-5050-LED-Strip-300LEDs-Non-Waterproof-LED-Flexible-Strip-DC12V/191385977521?

 

[fcwilt]

Well the ebay stuff MIGHT be fine but I don't see any specs - did you?
 

I don't see any UL markings on the ebay item and while I see the 3M marking on the adhesive liner we all know that vendors from China have no problem making bogus stuff.

 
I rarely shop ebay - is the picture shown guaranteed to match the actual item? The reason I ask is someone else posted a picture of something they bought and it WAS NOT the same quality at all. Notice in the picture from ebay that the parts are all nicely lined up? On the item this other poster purchased the parts were all over the place, alignment wise, indicating poor quality control.
 

But for $9 you might as well try it.

 
You can get a 20" length from the place I linked to for $15 so you could compare.
 
 
Now in my application I was re-modeling a kitchen and spending $125 for the lighting strip was a drop in the bucket compared to the overall cost of the project. I've seen high end name brand under cabinet lights of a more traditional form factor go for $150 for a 24" unit. The stuff I used works out to about $27, if memory serves, for the same size.
 
Since I have had nothing but good luck with the vendor I referenced I have stuck with them and not price shopped.
 
 
If you do get some of each let us know what you find.

 

[pete_c]

Googling the WAC LED87 puck lighting noticed that each device price was set to around $50 except for one place had one color on sale for $32 USD.
 
I paid some $50 each for my test LED 120VAC pucks.  They do continue to work fine after being on 24/7 for the last 3 plus years.
 
I personally did all of my outside LV lighting in cheap bulk purchased LED lamps.  The last few bulk purchases are working fine today off of DIN mounted DC LED power supplies.  (mostly they were all snow covered during the winter and continued to work fine).  I didn't pay more than $3 a lamp for these and have over 50 installed outside today in some 14 lighting zones.  My first 120VAC LED interior Cob lighting purchase was some $5 each and they work fine for me.  Same exact lamps here relabelled are some $25 + each.  I did also refit a "few" Kichler outdoor landscaping incandescent fixtures with cheaply purchased LED lamps and they have been fine now for some 3 plus years.  Most if not all of the higher end landscaping lighting housing's are built much better than the cheap big box LV landscaping lights sold in packages. (IE the cheap solar lighting stuff is mostly junk still after being sold now for some 5 years).
 
If you decide and go with a modular under the counter easy to replace LV LED lamp strip base then you can experiment with the excessively over priced still cheaply made LED strip lamps from wherever you purchase them or el cheapos that you find on Ebay.
 
The most difficult parts of your endeavour is the infrastructure (wiring) of these under the counter lamps no matter what you use as you will not want to visit the endeavor of the wiring afterwards (say you put in a tile backsplash type of stuff).
 
Today the L shaped / center island has multiple 120VAC outlets and they are spaced about 2 feet apart from each other.  When doing the LED lighting my preference would be to use inwall/exterior boxes as LV junction points to make the infrastructure modular and easy to repair or replace if necessary.  With the low prices of LED lighting; most of the monies spent / labor will be creating a nice looking infrastructure.  This too would be better relating to WAF.
 
Last summer also purchased a few Kichler LED lamps (similiar to the above mentioned LG LED lamps).  These were fixed prices around $75 each with a long term warranty.  They are constructed well but not really worth $75 each because they are using the same technology and build as the LG ones purchased above for $3.95 each.   Well honestly the LG commercial style LED lamps purchased at a discount were better built.

 

[fcwilt]

The most difficult parts of your endeavour is the infrastructure (wiring) of these under the counter lamps no matter what you use as you will not want to visit the endeavor of the wiring afterwards (say you put in a tile backsplash type of stuff).

 
Could you elaborate on this point a bit. All of the under cabinet wiring I have done is within the boundaries of the cabinet. A tile backsplash is not an issue.
 
Perhaps I am missing something.

 

[pete_c]

I have seen DIY LED under the counter efforts relating to getting the LED lamps there drilling holes into drywall and just fishing the LV wiring wherever. 
 
I have seen similar DIY 120VAC efforts done up up willy nilly like to accomplish the goals of LED lighting.
 
Some quickie examples:
 
BAD

GOOD

 
My references related to how and what infrastructure is best to utilize and not anything specifically to what you (Frederick)
have done because I do not know anything about it. 
 
That said though the choice of where to purchase LED lighting is really relating to how much you want to pay.   The technology and MFG of said LED lighting is the same.  Yup and there are cheap mfg LEDs and better mfg LEDs.   It doesn't matter where you purchase them though. 
 

Perhaps I am missing something.

 
Yes you did.
 
The original OP
 

I am looking at replacing existing florescent lighting. How do people handle going between
cabinets? Say you have two cabinets next to each other. Seems like choices are to drill
a hole through the cabinet sides and split the strip into two pieces - one under each.
The strips are easy to cut and solder.
Or cut a notch in the sides (it is pretty well hidden under the cabinet) and run a
continuous strip. If using channel and diffuser strip it seems like cutting a notch would
be best. And the lack of breaks in the light would look a bit better.
Anyone got some detail pictures of this?

 
then it evolved to:
 

I looked at LED strips and fixtures at HD and Lowes last night. I can get stuff much cheaper
on line but wonder about how long they will last (same concern for the big box stuff too though).
I plan to reduce the voltage a little to help that.

 
Its two parts; how to install and what to purchase.
 
I think its good to make suggestions relating to what vendors to use from personal experience.
 
I also think its good for said OP to know as much about this stuff as there is to know.