UPB network traffic

Desert_AIP said:
I may have missed it above.

What are your UPB settings in PCAccess for repeats and time delay?
What repeats are your switches set to?
UPB Settings in PC Access are as follows:
 
UPB Status Time = 5
UPB Transmission Count = 2
 
Using UPstart, I determined that all switches have Transmission Attempts set to 2.
 
What is really perplexing is that the OP2 transmits the two questionable command packets FOUR times each but yet the Transmission Count is set to 2.
 
I don't like to do a lot of customization with any settings for fear it will come back to haunt me.  I try to keep everything at factory default whenever possible.
 
BobS0327 said:
UPB Settings in PC Access are as follows:
 
UPB Status Time = 5
UPB Transmission Count = 2
 
Using UPstart, I determined that all switches have Transmission Attempts set to 2.
 
What is really perplexing is that the OP2 transmits the two questionable command packets FOUR times each but yet the Transmission Count is set to 2.
 
I don't like to do a lot of customization with any settings for fear it will come back to haunt me.  I try to keep everything at factory default whenever possible.
Higher repeat counts are a requirement for when you are using a repeater, which Leviton sells.  A repeat count of 4 is not unreasonable if you have two repeaters, and is a requirement if you have 3, which probably isn't unusual for some giant homes. 
 
I'm not sure I make the connection between transmission count and repeater count.
 
As I understand it.  The Packet Control Word (2 bytes or 16 bits) uses bit 14 and 13 as the Repeater Request (REPRQ) this field would determine whether the packet is a repeater packet or not.  The values are as follows:
 
00 Non Repeater Packet
01 Low Repeater Packet
10 Medium Repeater Packet
11 High Repeater Packet.
 
The transmission Count is the number of times the host will send out the command packet. The Packet Control Word bits 3 and 2 Transmit Count (CNT) has the following values:
 
00 = Transmitting this UPB Packet 1 time.
01 = Transmitting this UPB Packet 2 times.
10 = Transmitting this UPB Packet 3 times.
11 = Transmitting this UPB Packet 4 times.
 
The packets sent out by the OP2 have a repeater count of 00 (Non Repeater Packet) and a transmission count of 11 (Transmitting UPB packet four times).
 
I think your mixing apples and oranges.
 
Think about how a repeater works. It can't repeat until it receives it in the first place.  So the repeater listens during the first transmission, then transmits in-sync with the second. If you have more repeaters this repeats again with every repeater.  A repeater can't repeat a signal that isn't there, so upping the repeat count allows it to repeat.  You need the repeat count to be AT LEAST 1 + the number of repeaters.  My guess is repeat count increases each time. 
 
Even is this is completely wrong, then believe it from Worthington.  They have much experience with this....
http://www2.worthingtondistribution.com/blog/?p=179
 
I'm basing my understanding of repeating/transmitting on the latest PCS UPB protocol document.  I've attached the section that addresses repeaters.  My interpretation of the UPB protocol is that repeating and transmitting are two independent operations.
 
 
 
 
 

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ahh, I think I understand now. the HAI 39A00-2 is a PHASE link repeater.  It transports the UPB signal from one leg to another.  Whereas, PCS is referring to some type of commercial repeater that is used to have a UPB packet travel an extremely long distance.  I'm assuming the phase link repeater just passes all packets from one leg to another.  Thus, there is no need to identify them as repeater packets.
 
I don't have a phase link repeater installed.  Won't install one until I start encountering problems.
 
Finally determined the purpose of the repeater bits.  This is legacy stuff from Gen 1 and is no longer relevant (or used) with Gen 2 per PCS tech support.  As ano pointed out, transmission count method is the appropriate way to utilize a repeater.
 
But the OP2 still should ONLY be sending out two packets instead of four since the number of packets transmitted is determined by the transmission count found in the units/Dealer Settings.  I'm using the default of 2.  Thus, it should only send out 2 packets not 4.
 
 
 
There are two types of active repeaters; a three-phase repeater, and a split-phase repeater.  Three phase is another topic entirely, but the split-phase repeater is designed, like you say, to rebroadcast the signal on the opposite phase, but it also increases the signal on the SAME phase.  No matter which phase the signal originates on, it is rebroadcasted on both phases, so I think its a bit of a misconception that it only broadcasts on the opposite phase. 
 
Also note, the best I can tell, and anyone chime-in if you know differently, but the Leviton split-phase repeater is really manufactured by PCS, and is the exact same split-phase repeater they sell, so they both are the same beast.
 
I can't comment on the specs as I haven't read them, but maybe the other "repeater" you see there is used for other purposes, or maybe it doesn't actually exist and was only created for future use. Don't know. 
 
One thing that I was always surprised by is that you CAN use both an active split-phase repeater AND a passive non-inverting phase coupler together, and neither one seems to impact the other.  I have to do that in my home, and Worthington and PCS have both said that its acceptable.  Why do i need both? The simple reason is because Simply Automated switches are Gen I and don't benefit from a repeater, and since i have a few Simply Automated switches and many Leviton Switches, I need a repeater AND a non-inverting phase coupler. 
 
I also know that you DON'T want to use a Simply Automated inverting phase coupler with a repeater.  From what I understand, the effect is like adding matter to anti-matter.  :nono:
 
Also note, the best I can tell, and anyone chime-in if you know differently, but the Leviton split-phase repeater is really manufactured by PCS, and is the exact same split-phase repeater they sell, so they both are the same beast.
 
Yep, that is correct.  Leviton's repeater is manufactured by PCS.  My discussion with Marshall at PCS today confirmed this.
 
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