UPB split phase repeater help.

[standon]

I recently found a pretty great deal on a PCS SPR-1 (wire in model) and decided "Well, can't hurt".  My house is larger than the 5K sq ft suggested install, has 2x 200A panels (each with sub panels).  UPB is pretty reliable, but every once in a while (once a week or so) I notice something misses a command from my CQC system.  Most of these missed commands seems to be from switches on the panel without the PIM. It is on the opposite side of the house and the PIM.
 
Also, I just installed a couple small appliances, none of which I'm willing to get rid of.  I basically outfitted a kitchenette in the theater with a dishwasher, new mini fridge, and a Breakmate soda machine.  I put a Simply Automated noise filter on the Breakmate since it's old and who knows what kind of noise it was introducing.  
 
Enter the SPR.  I installed it using the only 220v circuit on the panel (the rest were 240v with no neutrals) in the trouble part of the house.  The 16 page PCS document really didn't indicate an ideal location besides near the panel.  After installing the SPR into UPStart, everything went haywire.  6 switches were missing and noise and comm tests failed with those switches.  I switched the sensitivity, nada.  I swapped the legs of the SPR, nada.  The switches that were missing seemed to be on the subpanel of the PIM. All my switches are of the Simply Automated US-240 variety.
 
Any suggestions on what I did incorrectly or something to try to correct it? I upped the multi-packet delivery one at a time (from default of 2) with no better results.  I kind of wish the user manual had more details about where to install in relation to everything else, rather than an explanation of the waves produced from noise and UPB signals.

 

[pete_c]

I have seen similiar but do not today.  I have a smaller footprint (house) on one panel.  That said I am using the HAI phase repeater, still have left in place the UPB phase couplers and a variety of UPB switches (HAI, SA and PCS these days).  I also have other UPB Pims on different circuits connected to different devices plus a float to check signals around the house with my laptop.
 
I am getting good quality signals today; that said I think the issue is relating to the gen1 and gen2 and the in phase and out of phase signals...much to much to write about here right now....
 
I have though recently upgrade much of my UPB lighting to the SA multitoggle / dual load switches reducing the footprint and actually today have less switches doing more stuff.
 
I apologize as the above doesn't really help you much.  You can maybe switch around the circuits in your fuse panel that has less than stellar UPB signals.
 
It would be nice to see a single UPB device that talks to multiple phases in your fuse panel or a means of talking to one serial cable which autoswitches what UPB PIM it connects to (say putting one PIM per circuit could also work).
 
IE: sort of the way that Jeff's XTB is doing with its dual phased customized TW-523 device (on steroids) and the old HAI to two serially connected TW-523's from yesteryear using X10.

 

[standon]

Thanks for your input Pete.  I saw a few of your threads while googling for a solution.  I just deleted the SPR, and sat here continuously verifying the network and noticed that my one of my HVAC systems is dropping a few of the switches whenever the heat comes on.  I just had a new motor and blower put in a few weeks ago.  Not sure how to fix that sort of problem... I may try to move my PIM to the other side of the house since the PIM I use is right next to the HVAC system.  I just need to find a power adapter for my Edgeport 16 in order to attempt it. 
 
I think part of the problem is that the builder built the house in phases.  One side of the house is essentially sealed from the rest (minus the panel wiring).  It has it's own HVAC and water heater even and wiring to that part is difficult to reach.

 

[pete_c]

Basically here is a rant of sorts...(old age thing I guess).
 
Yup; here my HVAC is adjacent (literally to the fuse panel; some 10 feet away).  I initially blamed my noise issues on the neighbors new in ground pool pumps basically because the step down transformer shared was some 100 feet away a few years back. I had a base UPB network that was working just fine until the pool got installed.  I didn't see noise though; I just saw my signals / switches go off line.
 
Maybe installation of an EMI AC Line noise filter would help.
 
http://www.pulseworx.com/tools_.htm
 
Here too I have an Edgeport 16 with the 4 USB ports on it.  I don't like that they went off standard for their barrel connected PS reversing the leads; PITA and sort of propietary flaw in their design of the box?
 
The 3 PIMs (XTB dual phased TW-523. Leviton Z-Wave PIM and UPB PIM are connected today to my Leviton HAI Panel are adjacent to the fuse panel on autonomous circuits.  I deliberate put the Z-Wave PIM between metal conduit to see how well it worked up two stories and outside. Over the last few years I added numerous circuits filling up my panel to provide me with better granularity.  IE: master bathroom initially had three circuits.  I added one there.  Family room had only one and I added two more.  I did try to separate the rooms a bit to autonomous circuits on the breakers (a bit much though; easy though to run more wires in the conduit; just time consuming).
 
The UPB floater is anywhere and just used to test signals.  You can test your signals around the house and maybe find an ideal location on your 120VAC connected UPB PIM.  Then maybe extend the serial cable to the location; but that would be a PITA.  Here I extend one UPB PIM by connecting it to a Quatech serial server on the network mostly to check my UPB signals on the second floor compared to the UPB PIM in the basement adjacent to the fuse panel.
 
For the software automation controller (Homeseer) I use two Digi Edgeports connected to 16 serial devices plus Digi USB hub such that all of the serial stuff is using RS-232 via short and long serial cables today (cat5e).  Some of these are maybe 150-250 feet.  Not really that long but always have worked well.  Always playing with my sandbox here; such that I have multiple Digi 8 port edgeports, Digi 16 port edgeports, Quatech serial servers, Digi USB Anywhere devices, Lantronics USB to network devices, so forth and so on. 
 
With that stuff my preferences relating to analog to digital stuff is to use a serial cable with a direct connection to the device controlling said device over using the network (wired or wireless); it always works for me in the past and current environment.
 
Personally I don't know why this would have caused an issue other than knowing that they maybe they hired some mickey mouse electrician to install the pool pumps on the cheap (they did budget install their inground pool - literally - still costing less than 50k guesstimate...but that is only a guesstimate based on how things were done in that house.  IE: one example was a nearby lightning strike taking out over 50% (TVs, refridgerators, microwaves, alarm panel, network stuff (and computers) so forth and so on of what they had plugged in while the same lightning took out only the two rain8net lawn sprinkler devices I had.  Another neighbor finished his basement; large area; and utilized only two circuits in his fuse panel and can't shut his garage door and watch TV in the basement at the same time....
 
But that is only a guesstimate as my problems mostly went away with the HAI UPB SPR.
 
I have to remove the basic HAI, SA and Pulseworkx phase couplers as I have just left them on separate breakers and have noticed that when I enable them they do actually cause signal issues to my switches with the SPR.

 

[standon]

I couldn't find that magic ac adapter, so I just soldered some wires to the barrel posts inside.  Every barrel I tried wouldn't fit.  As it is, I only found a 2.2A ac adapter which will have to suffice until the one I ordered comes in.  The light for ports 1-8 flashes, so I should be fine as long as I use only those ports.  This is turning into an all day affair.
 
I think the HAI SPR is the same as the Pulseworx SPR.  The directions seemed to have the exact same wording.  I wanted to try the plug in phase couplers made by SA, but I didn't have any plugs that looked like those.  My panels are completely full as well, so I'm not interested in going into them to play around.  During my repeater test, A->B failed, while B ->A had a signal.  I have no idea what this means though.

 

[pete_c]

I like Allelectronics for stuff.
 
Here is a 4 amp 5VDC power supply plenty robust for your DIgi Edgeport.
 
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/PS-544/5VDC-4-AMP-SWITCHING-POWER-SUPPLY/1.html
 
Looks to be a standard 2.1mm or 2.5mm port with the power reversed so you would just cut the end off the above power supply and buy one of these.
 
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/CB-236/6-CABLE-W/2.5MM-COAX-POWER-PLUG/1.html
 
Easier than soldering wires to the inside of the Digi.  You can also just purchase the wire/barrel connector and solder it to the current power supply making sure your polarity is reversed.  I just took a 5VDC PS with the correct sized barrel connector, cut the leads and reversed them; soldering and heat shrink the leads.
 

During my repeater test, A->B failed, while B ->A had a signal.

 
This is just a test from your repeater - A to whatever UPB - B device you have on the network
 
Not sure how your SPR is wired.  I did actually pick a place / breakers in my fuse panel moving stuff around and real time testing it.  You mentioned that you don't want to do that.
 
I haven't looked in a while but will have a peek via the left on line UPB PIMs and Upstart.  I never use it anymore nor look lately.
 
Neighbors in FL house have done similar; tearing down half of their homes; building new sides.  All new stuff including electric.  I don't think many of them though are / have automated their lighting.  I watched a couple of the builds and noticed that the electrical panels were adjacent to the older panels (circa 1950's).
 
OK tested PIM located on the second floor which is probably furthest away unless I plugged the PIM into 120AC power in a berm some 100 feet away from the house.  (BTW have tested talking to UPB switches in berms outside and they work fine).
 
Test -1 - PIM on second floor talking to repeater in basement fuse panel.
 

 
Test -2 - PIM adjacent to fuse panel on its own circuit talking to repeater in basement fuse panel on its own circuits.