UPB Switches
- Thread starter vtek63
- Start date
PaulD
Active Member
I experimented with SA, HAI and PCS switches. I prefered the "feel" of the SA switches plus they gave me the option of using a SA240 in all switch locations which can be tailored to the type of faceplate you prefer. I installed about 80 these in a new house along with a phase coupler and have had no problems whatsoever with communication. Also have not had any problems with interference from other devices. I suspect that installing them in a new house with new appliances may have helped vs using them with an older house with older (noiser?) appliances and potential bad wire.
Steve
Senior Member
The problem is your powerline can (and will) change. Could be almost anything - a new device you plug in, the transformer getting old and deteriorating, a neighbor plugging something noisy in, etc. Based on my experience over the past 4 years with UPB I can safely say there is no way I would ever use or recommend a Gen I (SAI) device. There is just no reason to. A Gen II device can have 2 sensitivity settings, low and hi, so it can be used as sensitive as a Gen I device in a non noise scenario, but the bonus is, when you do get noise introduce, you simply program the switches to lower sensitivity and you have a MUCH greater chance of them working. So, there is no reason not to get a Gen II device. And, As AnthonyZ said, Web Mountain is an SAI device with just Gen II firmware, so if you love SAI hardware, go with Web Mountain. I had a houseful of SAI stuff and whatever UPB stuff I keep will now be all PCS.
About a year or so ago I ripped out Insteon that just did not work and put in mosty SA UPB devices (a few PCS as well). Probably 45 in total in an older home with TONS of electronics and CFL's etc.
Everything has worked from day one with no filters etc. I did put a phase coupler in but it may not even be necessary.
Will this be typical? Probably not. I probably got blessed by the automation gods after the Insteon craplincs episode.
If you can get GEN II devices for about the same price as a GEN I then I would go with GEN II as well. I was fortunate that everything works fine but you never know.
Everything has worked from day one with no filters etc. I did put a phase coupler in but it may not even be necessary.
Will this be typical? Probably not. I probably got blessed by the automation gods after the Insteon craplincs episode.
If you can get GEN II devices for about the same price as a GEN I then I would go with GEN II as well. I was fortunate that everything works fine but you never know.
Looks like digitalAVnew.com is where Web Mountain links to to buy their products. Just want to make sure if anyone has purchased from digitalAVnew.com before.
Their GenII switch prices seem pretty good.
The HAI UPB PIM that I currently have from a little while ago is GenI I assume so if I get GenII switches, will they work with the GenI PIM until I get a new one?
Thanks for all the responses!!
Their GenII switch prices seem pretty good.
The HAI UPB PIM that I currently have from a little while ago is GenI I assume so if I get GenII switches, will they work with the GenI PIM until I get a new one?
Thanks for all the responses!!
AnthonyZ
Active Member
That's a site by and for Web Mountain. It's totally legit.
Simply Automated are great. If you need a relay switch, the HAI are O.K., but the Simply Automated switches have a non-dim mode, and they work fine on ceiling fans. If you are switching an outlet, ONLY use a relay switch. And the SA240 is the most flexible switch made, with faceplates that can work in any situation.
drozwood90
Senior Member
kwilcox
Active Member
Same here. YMMV though. The SA 1140s can be purchased in the $50-55 range. I'm running a house full of 1130s currently w/o issues. One of these days, I'm going to have to purchase an 1140 and see if the bi-color LED can be swapped with the red/green version that's in the older switches.
Steve
Senior Member
Sure, and nothing has changed yet. Absolutely, if you have a clean powerline and nothing changes, Gen I works fine. But just wait until you change something you don't realize, a variable speed motor like a pool pump, a new electronic cooktop in the kitchen, or even something as subtle and cheap as a Health/Zenith motion controlled light outside. These are just some examples and there are many more things you may install in hour home (or your neighbor might) that will totally corrupt your powerline. Anything you plug into or connect to your powerline has the potential to change it and introduce noise of some sort.
So, my point is, if you have all Gen I stuff and this happens (may never) you're screwed. But, If you just put Gen II stuff in and something changed, no big deal just adapt to it. If Gen II were some magic and expensive thing sold only by 1 place or something I could see the hesitation. But the truth is SA is the only holdout. Every other manufacturer uses Gen II. You love the SA changeable faceplates, great, use Web Mountain, it is the same exact SA switch with Gen II firmware. So if Gen II is available in ALL the available styles of switch, and the cost is no higher, then why not use it? Give me 1 reason not to use Gen II. The only remote reason I could say is that you want the changeable faceplates on the SA devices. So that now means having to buy Web Mountain to get that switch with Gen II. Your fear is that Web Mountain is only available through them instead of SA being available from several dealers.
I would have said the same thing as you and lots of other people at first. Sure UPB works great, no problems. It did for me too. But then came the kitchen remodel, then the new pool pump, then... UPB went from being rock solid to pretty unreliable. Gen II just simply works better in these dirty powerline environments and IMHO there is no reason to not start out with them. I am not advocating if you have a houseful of Gen I stuff to go out and replace it, that would be foolish, but if you are just starting out, I also think it would be a bit shortsighted to not put in Gen II stuff as long as you can get it in all your styles from all the manufacturers. I hope that clears up my point a bit.
kurtmccaslin
Active Member
I have tried both SA and Web Mountain gen 2 switches. I like the fact that the web mountain switches are gen 2 for a small difference in price. However, after using both, I prefer the SA US 1140. This switch is cheaper than the US 240 and the web mountain sw-7, and for my application has more utility. The SA 1140 only has a single rocker and lacks the flexibility to use the multi-button faceplate. At first, I liked the US 240 flexibility to customize the faceplate with a host of different options. However, after months of playing with both, I have concluded that 1) the wife does not really want to mess with the multi-button faceplates, and 2) the US 240 does not have the ability to send links with a single or double tap. With the US 1140, you can program the switch to turn on lamps in the room with a single tap-- and then turn on the switch load with a double tap. If you use this convention throughout the house, it becames very intuitive. If web mountain had a US 1140 with gen 2, I would go with it. However, it is not an option.
drozwood90
Senior Member
wow...sorry?
I was only stating in my experiene,I've no issues with Gen I.
I was not saying Gen II = bad.
If you want Gen II, go for it. I have no idead of the costs. I hope the op would hve looked himself. I was only offering that I didn't need it...in either house with anything that I've ever hooked up. So, if they DID cost more, the op would be able to say...maybe I can save a lot of coin. If they are the same price, great get GenII. I've not looked...again thought it should be up to the op to find pricing.
Sorry my opinion and experiences caused you so much pain.
--Dan
hucker
Active Member
I have the SA switches and love them as the have been very good for the last two years. HOWEVER last year around christmas all the lights in my house would go off. Very low WAF, the kids loved it. I pulled all my PIM's to make sure a controller wasn't guilty. Unfortunately, I couldn't get a scope to look at it. Hasn't done it since but it leaves me very suspicious.
With that experience I would do everything I could to increase my odds of success. Phase coupler, noise filter and Gen II. As I learned before it is not only noise that can get you. I added a UPS and found that it reduce my signal significantly. The power line does change over time....
Be careful out there....
With that experience I would do everything I could to increase my odds of success. Phase coupler, noise filter and Gen II. As I learned before it is not only noise that can get you. I added a UPS and found that it reduce my signal significantly. The power line does change over time....
Be careful out there....
